I recently installed ireland engineering camber plates on my mini and am having some trouble with the camber. On the drivers side of the car I can barely get any negative camber but on the passenger side I can get plenty. I know the drivers side will be restricted by the spring hitting the body but it still seems like I should be able to get more camber adjustment. So after reading around I'm beginning to wonder if my subframe needs to be shifted over. Has anyone done this or know how to do it?

 

I've been told you can loosen the bolts to the subframe to drop it a tiny bit,
shift the subframe (in your case toward the driver side), and tighten back up
again to add a little negative camber to the driver side and take away the
same amount on the passenger side.


(edit) first, though, make sure you're measuring on a level surface....one trick is
to measure the camber, then turn the car around pointing the opposite direction,
and measure it again, and average the results if different.

 

Can you give us some camber #'s so we have a better idea.
Make sure the camber plates are installed the same rt. to left.

 

 

Did you install the Ireland camber plate on the driver's side with the holes facing a different direction? There's two ways on the capture plate (I think that's what they call them) - with the holes offset to the inside, or the holes offset to the outside. If you have mistakenly installed it backwards, you won't be able to get much neg camber (ask me how I know)...

I got -2.2 out of the passenger side, but we could only manage -1.0 out of the driver's side - until I pulled the strut, rotated that top plate 180 degrees, and put it back in... then, wallah, -2.2 on both sides was achieved...

 

The capture plates are both in the same way. The problem is on the driver side the spring is hitting the body which is restricting the camber, so I don't think the problem is in the plates.

 

Do you know what the camber was before the plates went on? If it was off, then the sub frame shift sounds like the solution, the subframe bolt holes holes are slightly sloted.

You might still want to try the car reversal idea. Mark the tire positions, rotate the car 180, check camber again. Your floor may not not be as flat and smooth as you think.

 

I'm very curious about the sub-frame shifting...how is this possible? I've only had a couple of casually looks before my complete dismantling next weekend but there does not seem to any room for play in this sub-frame; the bolts go where the bolts go...or will experience teach me something different?

If the sub-frame indeed has tolerance, then it is very possible to screw up the front and rear track relationships as well - dog legging

 

I got the subframe info straight from my MINI tech, codriver. Bolts go where they go but what's between the bolt head and the bolt threads? That's what's sloted and moves a little. Word I got was 7/10 deg. max If I remember. If you're already in the middle, half that.

Do you know the front and rear were tracking correctly before? If you have all four adjustable rear control arms, you can make many changes to rear track.

 

You can shift the front suspension sub frame, the bolt holes do have some slot.{in the sub frame not the unibody}. Usally this is not needed unless the car has had an impact with a curb, collision from the side, or misinstalled either from the factory or after being loose for some other reason. If you look underneath you will see a hole in the sub frame that is directly underneath a hole in the unibody. These holes are used at the factory for guide pins to correctly possition the sub frame.{same is true for the rear sub frame, I used this hole for help fitting rear sub after swaybar install}
You have to rememember to check adjustment{of the front sub frame} front to rear as well as side to side. As you shift sub frame you will gain camber on one side as loose the same amount of camber on the other side.
You have to support the car with the weight off the front tires {and the sub fame} in order to shift the sub frame.

 

Fangio..did you do any other changes to your suspenion at the same time you installed the camber plates?
I am not sure I understand you for sure, is your coil spring rubbing on the drivers side inner fender now or not?

 

No, the only thing I installed were the camber plates. Right now both capture plates are set in the same direction on the car. The coil spring is rubbing on the drivers side fender. This seems to be what is restricting me from getting any more camber.

I tried to shift the subframe today but I dont see how it is possible. None of the wholes looked slotted or had any slop to allow for adjustment. As the car sits right now I have equal camber on both sides but in order to get this I have the drivers side pushed all the way inward and the passenger side pushed all the way outward. With the framing square up against the wheel it looks like its at 0 degrees.

 

You can shift the front subfame quite a bit. I found that out when I was installing my sway bar. I just tried to manage to align my subframe with the "clean" impression left when I dropped it. I'm sure I'm off a bit. I'll fix it when I put the camber plates and coilovers in.

 

Aligning the subframe is critical to properly locating the inner control arm pivot points or points of restraint in the engineering field. If the control arm pivot points are not centered on the car's center axis, then roll centers become asymetric. All lateral forces acting on the car begin at the roll centers and migrate to the CG(s). If there is a larger torque exerted turning left for example, the car will not handle in a predictable way.

 

There is movement....I have the advantage of frame & alignment equipment at my shop, so it makes it easier than just on the floor. Usually you have to use a little force to move & hold the cradle in place while you tighten the sub frame. Sometimes just a pry bar, somtimes a well placed come-along or hydraulic jack.

Most alignment shops are very capable of shifting the sub frame for you at very little cost.
You may just want to take your car to a good quality alignment shop and tell them you want a performance alignment {non factory specs} and give them the specs you are trying to achieve.
You will however be limited on the amount of camber you can get by the left side{both sides should be the same}. I had to flatten a ridge on the left side fender skirt{with a hammer} in order to get -2.1 degrees.
It may be a good idea to do this before going for the alignment. It is much easier to do it with the strut out, but can be done later, just harder to work around the coil spring.

 

Alright so now with the ridge flattened I was able to get some negative camber on the passenger side. Now the problem is trying to find someone to align it. Does anyone have any recomendations for where to get an alignment in or around Austin, TX? So far every shop I have called has said they wont touch the car because it has been lowered.

Thanks for all of the help.

 

The ridge that needs to be flattened is the left side{drivers side}.
Most cars that have been lowered won't align because people haven't added camber plates & rear control arms. So the alignment shop assumes your car won't align & doesn't want to mess with it.
It may help if you tell the alignment shop that your car will adjust.
Also may have to mention you will pay more $ than an ordinary alignment.{they normally only have to adjust toe in}
The first alignment is the most expensive, after that it is minimal charge again.
Sorry I don't know where to send you in Austin.
The only experience I have in Austin is the Lance Armstrong Ride. {had a blast} .....great city.

 

Check out your local SCCA chapter or check in with various tracks in your area. Eventually you will be pointed to folks who love working on track type cars...even if your is not a track car.

I went thru three different shops before I found someone I could work with, and, who actually possessed a personality ...some guys are just wound too tight.

 

You might call Terry Sayther's shop since they specialize in MINIs and if they can't do it for you they can probably tell you where to go for help.