no no no, keep going. spring rates, what Ken had been crying out for the longest time, is very important to determine the stiffness of your car, and of course stock shocks do not have enough travel with the lowering springs, which makes things worse.

 

Sorry guys....I haven't been around for a while. I've been hijacked by work...

I don't mind if people ask their wheel/tyre/suspension questions in here - this is what the thread is for. If I wanted to keep the info to myself I wouldn't have started a thread in a public forum about it. I'm happy people are interested in what happens here.

Anyway.....an update...

I was going to try the wheels on a car with eibachs last weekend, but we had some lock-nut issues - ie. the nut was torqued too hard by the the tyre shop that had previously repaired a puncture, and the lock-nut key was stripped when we tried to undo it. What ended up happening was my friend's car had two of the 18's on, and two R90 17's on. Needless to say he wasn't happy. He missed out the track day that evening.....

I went to the track feeling a bit guilty - but I have approx 120km of track time at Eastern Creek raceway in Sydney now! (where they hold the Australian round of the A1GP). It's bad, 'cause now I want to do more track time!!!

I have a friend who's offered me close to what I paid for the wheels. It is very tempting to sell them to him. I have a week or so to decide. I understand people are interested in the outcome of this problem - however I would say that I have learnt that lighter wheels DO make a massive difference to the ride quality and handling of the car. Also, a low offset is the primary enemy when it comes to rubbing - so if I were to do it again, I'd go for light 17's with a high offset....

I do accept that the stock shocks aren't best suited to lowering, but I now have to prioritise the little money I have to spend on the car. Shocks? different wheels? a different tyre choice? I'm also thinking about doing some brake mods (braided lines, slotted DBA disks, better pads and Dot5 fluid) now that my middle peddle is a bit mushy from the track day...

I have to say, all of the advice given here so far has sounded reasonable, and it's all up to me now to make a move:

shocks - not suited to lowering
tyres - make a significant difference, incl. compound, width and sidewall size
tyre pressure - very important
wheel weight - affects suspension performance (ie. unsprung weight)
spring rates - important
progressive springs - better for road use
offset - lower et = more chance of rubbing
control arms & other alignment devices - can have an effect...

Now Christmas is here, and I'm moving halfway across the country in three weeks, so I don't think I'll (we'll) see any progress with the 18's for a little while....

I'm keen to see how everyone else goes with their questions....so post away!!

oh yes....he's the pro photographer's site of the track-day photos:
http://www.jpmphoto.com.au/mini_club_twilight.htm

 

Track events can really become addicting fast.....they are just so much fun. And they certainly teach you about how to mod your car. I remember going to my first track day in my MINI and realizing that i had forgotten about upgrading my shocks and brakes. Going on the track really opens your eyes to the world of functionality and necessity, you realize what needs to be done to allow your car to handle at the limits. Shortly after a few runs on that track, i ditched my heavy wheels (fliks), ordered new shocks (konis), and am currently looking into brake mods. I say think the offer (for the wheels) over heavily and decide if it is what you want. It certainly is a great deal, and moving down to 17s may save you a bit of money for other mods such as brake fluid and pads. It's really up to you though...there is no wrong

PS-Your sig looks amazing. Thats a great rolling shot.

 

berky, when you quote me i get real uneasy.

the stock shocks have plenty of travel, it just may not have the
damping capacity within that shorter stroke.

 

Yeah..it was taken by another Aussie over at mini2 by the name of ScottyB last weekend.....you might know him as the crazy person who just passed 100,000 posts over there last week.....

 

Hey Tiaan

It's Chris here (MiM), sorry to hear about the problems that you had earlier in the week.

Sounds like you had fun out at EC

Cheers
Chris

 

Oh yeah...that was untidy....it's what's pushing me towards selling them..."bad-luck wheels"...

EC Rocked!!!

 

Sounds like the decision on the wheels has been made

 

That is correcto. Spring rates and damping force are equally important. They need to be matched for everything to function properly. The stock shocks are matched to the stock springs, so if you put stiffer springs than stock then you'll need shocks with a higher damping force. They'll work with stock shocks but not the way they should. I wish I still had my vibrations text and I would post some of the equations. A search of the web would probably turn up a lot of information too.

 

equations??!!?

EEEK!!!

 

 

yeah, used the wrong words, meant the same ****

 

What do you fellas think about the routecompany R90 replicas?

This is about what they'd look like:



Only problem I can see is that the et is 40mm ....i'll have to go back to 205/45's...but it'd probably be good for my ride quality...

Anyone have any suggestions of a 205/45 tyre with good ride quality? I'll still be driving the car, so performance is important....

I'm currently running Toyo Proxes T1-R 215/40/ZR17 on the S-Lites and I'm very happy with them......lots of guys down here have had good experiences with the Michelin Pilot Preceda Sports also....

Any thoughts....?

BTW: the deal on selling the 18's isn't closed yet....I'm just thinking 'out loud'...

 

I like the look of the R90 replicas, but I would guess that they are still fairly heavy. One of the things I like about your "bad luck" wheels is the gray finish with your DS car.

John

 

That's exactly what I would have thought. However, my H-Sport springs and stock shocks feel overly harsh, as if they are over-dampened. The real killer on the ride quality is rebound. The car comes down so hard and fast that the lap belt cuts like #$%^.

(edit) After I wrote that last paragraph, I went out and checked the spring rates of the H-Sport vs. stock. The stock MINI springs are 225 lb/in front, and 220 lb/in rear. The progressive rate H-Sports are 173/195 lb/in front, and 160/300 lb/in rear. Couple this with wheels that weigh apx. 20 lbs less per corner than stock, and I'm beginning to see the problem, at least for the front spring rates.

It looks like I may need some adjustable shocks, but after researching the Konis with the adjustment **** mounted on the top, I would have to pull the rear shocks out of the car to adjust them. Not good! Does anyone have a recommendation for adjustable shocks with an accessible adjustment ****?

Thanks,
John

 

Yup, the H-sports can be overdamped because their rate is at times lower than stock. Well, the front is always lower. Randy Webb likes the Koni Yellows even though the rear adustment isn't accessible. He has a write up about them and the Hsport springs in the FAQ at his website. Once you find a setting you like in the rear they would just have to be left there, but then you could play with the front to match the H-sport spring rates. The only other aftermarket shock I know of is the Bilstein SP, but I don't think it is adjustable.

I like the H&R and Bilstein SP kit that's out there. TEIN's with Bilstein SPs would probably be a good combo too. I was going to put the H-sport springs on my ride, but now I'm wondering if I should or if I should try something else. Has anyone gotten a ride comfort like stock or better from H-sports with different dampers?

Oh, DesignIt did you change the bumpstops with the new ones that come with the H-sports?

 

Tit- i think your 18's look fine.

the +40mm with 215/40/17 should work (tad under load).
215/45/17 running parada's or other tires with narrower shoulders
should work too without rubbing. tires you probably want to stay away
from are 215/45/17 S03's, GS-D3's, Yok ES100's. these tires have
wider shoulders than others and could rub.

but even if it did rub, you can dremel the fender liner a little bit
which really isn't that big of a deal .

 

Ken...no doubt about it. The 18's look fantastic. I love how they look. But I don't like how they ruin the driving experience of the car.

When I had the 215/40's on another set of 17's I had (et40 also), they rubbed occasionally (read: rarely).

Hmm....dremelling....you know....this evening I might go out and take a photo of where the 18's rubbed. They didn't rub where I expected them to!

 

I had a very spirited run today on the back Hillcountry roads, I mean threw the car all over the place. 2 things I noticed, the car handles much better with h-sport springs and 18s, and the second thing was repeatedly rubbing in the rear. Rubbing was due to the deep dips, i mean, real deep ones. The car runs better than the stock set up by all means. Needs a little dremel job and a rear sway bar. But the truth is I do this 3-4 times a year, because it is extremely dangerous and my car is too valuable to me to risk.

I really enjoy having 18s, I had serious doubts, but now pretty happy with them. I am learning more about the suspensions, so next will be the sus. mod with sway bar. If I wanted something comfortable would have bought a Merc. anyways.

So Tit, instead of selling the rims and taking a hit, just keep them, man. Trust me it is worth it (at least in my case).

 

What are the details of your wheels? Weight? Offset? Tyres?

I only got rubbing in the deep dips just like you are describing. I know where such dips are in my town, so as I approached them, I would warm my passenger and then grimace in anticipation of the dip!

It was the feedback of every ripple in the road that I found annoying. Also, it feels like I'm dragging anvils around. I could not believe how much of a difference the light weight wheels made! Perhaps, to put it in context: my car felt more spirited with the s-lites on after I took the 18's off!!! Putting those enkei's on the car just added another complication to the equation...

Perhaps in that context, going to the route-company's wouldn't make sense...as they aren't really light (but definitely lighter than the 18's and the s-lites).

I didn't feel any performance improvement with the 18's. Cornering, acceleration and braking suffered, if anything...

 

i have OZ superturismo WRCs, and they are 18x7 42Et, lighter than S-lites. They do not enchance the performance of the car, but i felt the positive difference in handling. truly, even WRC cars use larger diameter rims for their road courses. So i really don't understand all this lightweight 15" blah blah blahh, of course someone will try to explain now and try to make all the points, but too much crying here lately, especially on this big rim deal.

 

I need to take you on a run in my car sometime and then I'll ride in yours and we can compare. You have H-sports with 18s and non-runflats and I have the sway bar with 16s and runflats. We should notice a big difference between the two. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but they should feel different.

 

I'm not crying. I just want to have my cake and eat it too...

I'm about to move to another city in two weeks. When I get there I know someone who owns a wheel distribution company. I'm going to get some prices for several different rims, including Enkei RPM2's and OZ Superlegerras...the only thing about those that bother me is the offset...(17's are et38, 18's are et42 like yours I think...). Of course, there is always the dremel...

I guess, generally, the assumption is that the bigger the rim, the heavier they are. And I was like you until I put those enkei's on. I didn't buy the lighter wheel argument. But I was surprised.

My issues are those of comfort at the moment. Having larger rims, means you'll need a smaller series tyre (ie. 35), and thus, a likely loss of ride comfort. There was also a good point made here about the type of tyre. Perhaps a better tyre would improve the ride comfort in that series?

I understand it's all about compromise. I would really like 18 inch wheels, and if I can make it work, I will. I even looked into getting the wheels modified to raise the offset a bit - but it seems that it would not be good for the structural integrity of the wheel.

I don't personally like the "roller-skate" look of 15 inch wheels with massive tyre sidewalls either. I understand what you're saying there. It isn't very propular here in Australia. I have to admit, I was sort of surprised when I first came on NAM and saw people spanking on about 15 inch wheels.....

To top it off, I'm working 8 12 hour shifts over the christmas period (incl. up to 7am on christmas day, only getting that and the 26th off up to NYE )....so I just run out of time to address this problem before I move halfway across the country

 

yeah, good idea. What is going to happen to the differences in between two drivers? J/K. Today was the fastest day in my Mini, and I had a real good friend of mine on the passenger seat and driver seat, happens to be a pro go-kart pilot and a race instructor, so I had a free training sessions for couple of hours and we practiced, learnt a lot. He has been showing me bunch of techniques that normal drivers would not know. It was cool, now i got to practice and practice. Don't get me wrong, I have not become a WRC Pilot overnite, yet though. Need a lot of practice. We should do couple of runs to compare the cars Greg, i am in. I needed a rear sway bar couple of times, which were extreme situations.

 

I have my swaybar sitting at home - can't wait to get it installed....