Abu is not being condescending, he is just pointing out the facts. If you have read this thread in full you would see that it became a spit fest on whether the USS was worth it or not. Both sides were fighting hard and you just opened the door to start it all over again. At the end of the day, you are going to make the decision yourself.

The problem was that the person above had fitting issues and it soured him on it (rightfully so). Now I may not agree with "how" he handled the situation with the vendor but he does have a point that some exhausts will not allow proper fitting without serious work. He decided to go the full suspension route instead and now believes that it (USS) provided no additional support.

Just looking at what the product is supposed to do along with a full suspension workup, I can't see a downside to having it on the car at all even with a full suspension workup. However, there are many camps when it comes to modding and you are going to get all sorts of BS information.

 

I do not have the USS, and as far as I know I have never ridden in / driven a car that does have it.

Some things to remember: Someone mentioned that 90% of the people who have installed the USS have said it's great. On most forums, 90% of the people who install anything will say it's great. Most of those posts will come within a week of the date it was installed. Are they wrong? Maybe, maybe not.

A lot of the impression one gets about a car is mental. If you go out thinking the car is suddenly capable of more performance, you'll probably drive it harder. When you drive it harder, you'll think it is handling better. "I went faster through my favorite stretch of road!" Yeah, because you went faster... possibly not because the car is handling any better.

Bracing cannot hurt, other than installation issues, ground clearance issues, and possibly taking something that was designed to be energy absorbing and no longer letting it absorb energy as designed. I do not have anywhere near enough knowledge to say if the USS does any of these things.

 

... but some of this is just COMMON SENSE. Which, alas, is far too uncommon.

If you have the opportunity sometime to see a stripped MINI chassis - with the bumper, front wheel wells, engine, etc. removed - and you look at how the front strut tower area is just "hanging" out there in front of the car, each side independent...

Seeing that did it for me... no question that adding the bumper and engine, etc. back in adds some rigidity - but I have no doubt that some significant twisting is occurring on uneven pavement under hard driving. Otherwise there would be nothing called "cowl shake". Two ways to reduce that - absorb the effects of it, or stiffen to prevent it. Even if you absorb it, it's still there, and your suspension is doing extra work to combat it...

Anyhoo.... I would suggest that anyone who intends to do a "full suspension" on their MINI *might* save their money and do that - then, if they have an extra $350 bucks lying around, and they aren't 100% confident that their car is ALL it can be, what the hay, get a USS... take a couple of Excedrin and a Malox... meditate to get in the right frame of mind... then make it fit. If you're 100% confident that your car can't get any better, then don't spend the money.

For MANY of us (self included) who have no short-term plan to lower, camber, coilover, control arm, or otherwise screw with the OEM suspension geometry for various reasons... and especially the cabrio owners among that group (the only tiny faction I might claim to represent).... I stake my reputation on the USS satisfying. And, so far, of the folks who have taken that advice (about 10) - 100% say they're happy.

If you don't fit the caveats / conditions I laid out above, then you're on your own and I have no interest in what you do.

 

Let the games begin....

 

There is a lot of truth in this. . . especially with suspension mods which are extremely hard to quantitatively gauge (can't compare hp and dyno print-outs).

However, there's also a lot of truth to the fact that disatisfied customers (who often feel tricked, cheated, misled -- pissed off) are likely to write in and complain than that satisfied customers will write in to say they're happy with the product. Additionally, a satisfied customer will only write in once or twice to state such, whereas an unhappy customer (who has taken the deal personally) will write in more often and more emphatically.

Just a thought.

Dang it!! who took my popcorn?? daflake, I'm looking at you.

 

The M7 USS gives you the most bang for the buck. $350 will get you 90% of what a $1500 suspension rebuild will get you. It's your money spend it any way you like.

 

You might want to think about that. I would bet that those who do suspension for a living would strongly disagree with that statement. If it was such a magic bullet wouldn't other tuners/manufacturers jump on board with their own offerings?

Nothing personal, but it is general and unsupported statements like above that contribute to the misinformation that is floating out there in the ethernet.

We can discuss, but lets not throw around BS numbers. How do you quantify that the USS gives you 90% of a full suspension? Why not 92%, or 88%, or 76%? Might as well stick to the well defined and M7 patented manufacturing terms like: After a spirited canyon run our butt dynos said "wow"!

Show me some support data and I will recant my statement. Lap times with USS vs. without. Lap time USS vs. "proper" suspension. Don't just throw out personal impressions of unqualified customers, no matter how well intentioned.

 

^ all true -- but I also haven't seen "numbers" to support $1500 in suspension mods. For example, i truly believe a swaybar is worth it and will get one -- have I seen lap times to prove it? no. Numbers to quantify coilovers? adjustable control arms? camber plates? No, no, no. . . but I wouldn't say personal impressions are therefore of no use.

Like I said, that's the problem with quantifying suspension mods.

Edit -- by the way, on a quantitative scale of 1 to 10, I find that driving on a sports suspension causes a hemmorrhoids flare up of 8, instead of the 6 experienced on a standard suspension

 

Agreed. But there is some anecdotal data to support the suspension decisions. In my case I always seem to be behind a guy at my local AutoX events who runs on PSS9's. And I seem to be slightly ahead of the guys who run stock suspension. Obviously there are lots of variables involved, but when you are running against the same guys all the time you can guesstimate whether your mods had positive/negative effect based on your finishes. Not very scientific and error prone, but that's all I got....

As far as numbers for coilovers/camber plates/etc. go. They are out there. I haven't looked for them and couldn't point you in a right direction, but I know there are plenty of companies out there that do track testing on their suspensions (DMH and TSW are the two from this forum that come to mind). Some of them even mentioned the use of the mythical Shock Dyno machine.

Anyway, I am off to a two day AutoX event. I will check how many participants are running the USS and will report on their level of satisfaction...

 

I just added an OMP strut tower brace and lower brace. $230.00 for both.

They work great and yes I can tell a difference. Once you have done all the usual suspension mods low speed corners are great. Hi speed corners on the other hand are the problem. The car liked to wonder. It kinda felt floaty if that makes sense. With the upper and lower braces the car feels planted to the road and feels much better.

I only wanted the lower but for the price I figured what the hell. I do like the strut tower brace. It has plates that wrap around the strut tower. This is a smart design. When you install it you just snug the bolts up then pre-load the brace (the plates are pushing out tight against the towers) then you tighten the bolts. Now there is more then just the bolts keeping things from flexing. The best part is the install for both took 30 min. It would have been less but I was drinking.



Longboard

 

 

I always like to go back to what is done to racing vehicles. Are they not braced like everywhere? I know this is not a good example all the time for our cars, as we have to think of how a manufacture designed crush zones and such, but a USS is under the car, no crush zone here, so makes sense to brace it. Look at Cabrios, they have the extra brace on the shock tower that hardtop Minis do not have, but many... many hardtop owners are now installing them, can they tell if it does anything?, problebly not, but sure does look like it can only help. So in the end it is up mostly to the consumer to judge what he or she wants to buy, thinking it can help them out. Remember we are all adults, decide for yourself.

 

I thought the title of this thread was "M7 Under Strut System"?

I dunno, but it looks like there are at least three different threads going on here to me

 

As It has been quite awhile since I retold this story and over 400 of these units have been sold I guess it is time to mention a few things once again for those new to the Mini world. I had what could be described as a competition suspension , Leda gas emulsified coilovers, adjustable front camber plates, H-sport comp bars front and rear , rear adjustable control arms and a upper front strut tower brace . My best lap time at the big track at Willow Springs up to that point was a 143.2. At the time the weak part of my program was the motor so I felt that time was OK. My car had been in this configuration for close to 18 months so I was very familiar with the feel and capabilities of the setup. About 2 months after the event where I as able to put down the 143.2 I went back with the USS installed. There were no engine mods done during that time , the same Toyo Ra 1's were used and my best time on the day was a 141.4. More importantly I did not feel I was as close to the " edge " as I did turing the slower time . Now this is all my opinion and of course I have a vested interest. Thes times are all taken by my onboard Hot Lap system and is VERY accurate . Let me give you someone else's opinion who's credentials are a " bit " stronger than mine.

In december of 05, yes we have been selling these units that long, I did a event at California Speedway for Eurotuner Magazine called " My Car Challenge " . During the event my car was driven for two sessions by professional race car driver Will Turner owner of Tuner Motorsport / Race Team and Grand AM champion . He also has a Mini of his own that does not leave the shop without a full bottle of NOS so he knows his way around the Mini .During the event Will drove a variety of BMW's etc including a track prepared supercharged M3. Let me quote his comments as they were published in the April 2006 edition of Eurotuner Magazine

"Will's Assessment : The Mini was definitely the most fun car today. It was hard to tell the lap times as the car was deceivingly fast. It doesn't pull like the supercharged M3 but it was great in the corners and easily made up for lack of pace on the straights . It made good use of its R compound tires too. I would race this Mini the way it is - it could enter a Grand Am race and be competitive. "


On a side note at the end of the event Will sought me out to take one more run in the car during the last open lap session. Of all the cars there the fact that he picked mine felt pretty good . He offered to take me along and I could not refuse. Seeing what the car could really do was both eye opening and educational . I learned a few tricks in that 20 min that I will never forget . I tell you the difference between a pro and armature is amazing on so many levels one of the biggest is breaking. They go Deeeeeeep LOL. He cut my brake zone in half at least and I thought I was going in pretty far to begin with. The biggest thrill was Will spying the M3 about a half a lap ahead and him saying , " that has a supercharger and we are going to catch it.". I held on and 5 laps later we did just that . The Mini never made me more proud especially when the owner of the M3 came up in the paddock later to find out what the hell happened LOL .

Later in the day I had a nice sit down with Will and discussed a variety of things with regards to my car . He said the USS was certainly a benefit as he could never push his car as hard as he did mine. I didn't think about it but he said that under hard braking and he brakes HARD a mini has a tendency to wander a bit . He felt that mine tracked straighter than any he had driven. Also in the tight turns he was able to rotate the car at will, something he says is absolutely necessary in a FWD car to get thru the tight parts whether it be on a road track or Auto X.
So what does all this mean ? Well to sum it up I say it works . More importantly so does WIll and the other 399 happy customers

Randy
M7 Tuning

The Line up from that day for Eurotuner



Yes Will is that tall

 

^ or Yes you are that short

 

Randy,

Great post. Very well written. And nice input from a trusted third party (Will Turner).

That's the kind of feedback we need.

 

+1 Randy

FWIW, that matches my feel of what the USS is giving me - less wandering at or near the limit. More planted behavior under hard braking and cornering....

(the other 394 or so of you who haven't chimed in, feel free any time now...)

 

PS. we sold alittle bit more then 400 units...

peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123

 

I would hope so. I've purchased 3, just in my MINI family alone, in the last 13 months.

BTW, Peter....chop, chop....we need one for the R56. Arrival of the next addition to our family is Sept. 7th-ish.

 

It's 80% there (I got part of it on my R56) so it will be here sooner then later
I promisse.

Peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123

 

not trying to **** in your cheereo's or anything. But what kind of suspension setup does Will's car have in comparison to yours? While I do believe the USS can help greatly and be very noticable on the track... Suspension setups like leda gas filled and full sway bar swaps aren't common fair.

Thanks and awesome post randy.

 

The only item he talked about being superior to my set up when I asked where he would improve my car was in the brake area as he uses stop tech. He did not mention the specifics of his car other than the NOS being filled every friday afternoon before he took it home.As Turner Motorsports are a dealer for both Bilstein and Moton I would think he would be using one of those on his personal car . Funny you mention the Leda's as they are now for sale as I am keeping ours on the car permanently

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

I appreciate your honesty randy. connecting the dots it sounds like he has a pretty serious setup as well. I think a lot of us like the idea of some one replacing 3k coil overs with 1400 ones.

 

The next time I see the Turner MINI around, I'll try to remember to take a better look at what's on it. I seem to recall that it isn't built to the hilt. The Turner folks spend more time on the BMWs than they do on the MINI.

Although, I don't know if the obnoxious blue and yellow MINI is Will's or the shop's (and Will has another one).

 

Great, that does it. Just what I was looking for and hadn't found for some reason! I'm going to order that up pronto!

Along with a bunch of other stuff.

Now to go to another thread and determine which RSB to purchase before I pull the trigger lol.

Thanks Randy!