Last night I swapped out the factory rear swaybar for the H-Sport Comp (hollow, 25mm, with three settings). As a mechanic, I'm notoriously slow, so the install took almost three hours But the midnight test drive was fantastic

Without degrading the ride quality, my MCS is now devoid of the understeer I had come to expect. Since I had the roads to myself, I just kept edging my entry speeds up, probing for the new higher limits. What I found was that the limits are now more than high enough for street use.

The car turns in so well and is so neutral through the middle of the corner. Gone is the feeling that the front tires are being overworked. Now I can just brush the brakes slightly, turn in and roll back into the throttle.

On a few occasions I thought I may have entered the turn too quickly. All it took was a tiny bit of lift throttle to plant the nose, and I was back in the gas runnin' on rails. Way too much fun

In the future, I think I'd like to add the H-Sport Comp front swaybar. I have the rear bar set in the middle setting. With an upgraded front bar, I could easily go to the firmest setting on the back. I think it would be a great combination.

If anyone out there has the stock springs/shocks with H-Sport Comp bars, please let me know. I'd like to pick your brain about it.

 

Sounds like a great first ride!
I have the same setup and love it.
Do check out what Randy says about a front sway.
http://store.webbmotorsports.com/ind...in_page=page_3

 

Twister -

Thanks for the link You probably just saved me some money. There's a lot of good info about suspension tuning and a variety of other topics there.

For those of you who want the summary, here's what Randy Webb has to say about it:

 

I just ordered the H-Sport kit, and will be installing both bars. Now, let me preface this by saying that I've not yet picked up my Mini, but I do have a lot of experience in various B5 A4 vehicles with H-Sports on them. H-Sport knows how to deliver a matched set of bars to dial out understeer. The two bars are designed to function as a set. Besides, the rear bar is a full 383% stiffer than the stock one, and the front one is only 27% stiffer than the stock front bar.

There is another benefit to a larger front bar that Randy neglected to mention. It can improve turn-in feel tremendously. The more direct, RIGHT-NOW turn in feel of a larger front bar can make you feel like you're driving a scalpel.

We'll see - maybe I'll put it on and won't be able to induce oversteer no matter what. But before I remove the front bar I will be trying springs with more variance in the F-R spring rate bias.

 

Markbradford - Please keep us updated. It does seem to make sense that upgrading both bars, esp. with the comp. rear bar, is going to be a very good track set up.

 

Hope you find the perfect setup! And a note for those without a LSD: a bigger front bar will tend to pick up the inside front wheel in a corner and smoke that tire, so more spring rate in front (rather than more front bar) would be advisable to balance a rear bar set at the firmest setting.

 

Let me know what you think.


I have spent a LOT of time at the track, and in fact H-Sport developed the "competition" bar for me.

With some camber in the front, rear spring rates that are stiffer, and a competition rear, you can do the front swaybar and not end up understeering.

For a stock car, the rear swaybar alone gives you about the same feeling as far as dynamics go as all of the parts listed above. Just trying to give you the most options!

If it is turn in you want, try the car stock. It turns in great - almost too quick. If you aren't happy with it, give yourself a 1/16" toe out in the front. Toe and camber can make turn in exactly the way you want it, and you don't have to go through the NIGHTMARE of installing a front bar (take a look at the website, www.webbmotorsports.com, and look at the forum - there is a how-to on the front bar).

Hope that helps!
Randy Webb

 

I was wondering about this. They sell a kit (http://www.h-sport.com/cgi-bin/EDCst...alogno=80800-1)
that has springs and both sway bars. For this kit, they choose to include the sport rear bar (+54%, +88%, 128%) instead of the comp rear bar (+226%, +294% & +383%). What's interesting, is that most people who get just a rear sway bar, get the comp one and not the sport. So with both fr and rr bars on, why did hotckiss decide to go with the smaller rr bar?

 

Perhaps for the same reason Mini chose to make the car understeer? (For lawsuit avoidance) People who know what they want will assemble their own, and by intentionally choosing a non factory-offered configuration, they will clearly shoulder the blame for their own actions. Note too that understeer is clearly faster in common benchmarks like a slalom. Less fun, but faster.

 

Randy -

Thanks for weighing in to add to what we pulled from your site. While I would like the car to corner flatter, I definitely don't want the understeer I had before the rear swaybar replacement. So, if the front swaybar installation is so tough, and it doesn't give me what I want w/o doing springs and camber plates as well, I'll just stay where I am for now.

Truth be told, I'm quite happy with the handling of the car since the H-Sport Comp bar was added. Thanks for the recommendation and the follow-up.

 

I just installed the H-sport springs and ALTA 19mm (I should have done the 22mm) rear sway bar. I have a bit of rubbing that I have to fix tomorrow, but other than that, the car handles so much better. The H-sports lower the car just enough to make it look more agressive! Any tips on getting rid of the rubbing? I think its the sway bar rubbing against the subframe, but I will have to jack it and tear it apart to find out for sure! The rubbing seems to be common with the addition of the springs based on some of the NAM searches I've performed.

 

BFG9000 is wrong. :smile:

Having gone through the front sway bar thing, the reason H-sport front sway bar is not that much stiffer than stock is because the bars (front and rear) work as a set along with the H-sport springs.

I installed H&R springs, Konis, and the H-sport comp rear bar. Middle setting and the car was pretty much neutral (a tiny bit of understeer remained.) Added the H-sport front and the old understeer returns, and with the rear set at the stiffest it still does not rid the car of understeer, although there is a bit of improvement.

Now look at the spring rates between H&R and H-sport. H-sport uses a stiffer rear spring and a softer front spring than H&R. Now think about that and you'll see why my car with H&R springs did not work all that great with the front bar.

If you run the H-sport front bar with non-H-sport springs, you won't know what you have until you drive it. It may help or it may hurt the handling.

I can tell you this, the car cornered completely flat and driving up into driveways was always interesting.

 

H-sport uses a progressive springs, but it seems pretty close compared to +383%(Comp) vs. +128%(Sport), no?:smile: As Randy pointed out, a little camber up front would fix that understeer with the front + Comp bars. Don't know if that would be enough to fix it with front + Sport bars.

 

Monkey_boy I think you misread my posting. I wasn't asking why the front (fr) bar was so little changed from that of stock, but why the rear (rr) bar used in their package was the weaker sport one and not the stiffer competition one. I think BFG9000 answered my question in regards to the cya clause in the insurance policy . I'll definitly get the strong rear bar, if I go that route. :smile:

 

Yeah, I think you're right! Sorry for the diversion.

 

No worries. :smile:

 

I just added 1/16" toe out on my otherwise stock 05. I was worried about strightline stability and a little steering vagueness upon intial turn-in; the car still tracks very well, steering is a tad vague off center, but turn-in and grip thru the first portion of turns I encounter on my daily commute is great!

If it is turn in you want, try the car stock. It turns in great - almost too quick. If you aren't happy with it, give yourself a 1/16" toe out in the front. Toe and camber can make turn in exactly the way you want it, and you don't have to go through the NIGHTMARE of installing a front bar (take a look at the website, www.webbmotorsports.com, and look at the forum - there is a how-to on the front bar).

Hope that helps!
Randy Webb[/QUOTE]

 

A WARNING!!! For those new to the competition rear bar only, settings on medium to firm may and will induce "throttle-lift" oversteer. Meaning if you lift the throttle while entering a high speed corner, you will end up ***-backwards and spin. That is why the MINI designers set the stock bars the way they did. 99.9% of aggressive drivers will end up off road if they didn't. If you have the bar set stiff you have to give it MORE gas to plant the nose. Try it sometime in a big empty parking lot or your local SCCA autocross if you don't believe me.

Have fun!

 

minifinn's exactly right. Lift-throttle is a cornering technique best left to "professional drivers on closed courses" . It's not something to experiment with on public roads. If you want to develop this type of skill, you should enroll in one of the many fine Driver's Education events available around the country.


Let's look at this one a little more closely... Lift throttle transfers weight to the front tires, increasing their grip and planting the nose. Once the turn-in is accomplished, increasing the throttle will then transfer weight back to the rear tires reducing the likelihood of a spin.

In the case of my '05 MCS with an H-Sport Comp rear swaybar in the middle setting and an otherwise stock suspension, only small changes to the throttle input are required to acheive positive turn-in and balance the car throughout the corner.

As I said earlier, this is not a technique for beginners. The throttle inputs are usually pretty subtle. Think in terms of "credit card thicknesses" as a unit of measure ... really very subtle.

 

hi all: Installed the h-sport sway bar 25 mm hollow on my jcw suspension equiped 2005 cooper s. the rubber bushing within the swaybar mount touches the underbody, just above the swaybar mount, toward the inside, more so on the passenger side. I installed this same bar on my standard suspension (SS2) on my 2004 cooper s with no problems/contact. Also, I have done this install now four times, so I am confident it is in correctly. The bar works great, but I was concerned that over time this may be a potential rust problem, especially if underbody is rubbed. The swaybar mount is fixed/connected to the subframe and the body doesn't more, so I guess there is minimal risk for damage. I just don't like they touch... Wondering if this is a problem for anyone else, if it is related to the jcw suspension or 2005 model year.... Any comments appreciated. How much undercoating is right above the sway bar if I dare cut some off...

Thanks much, Matt
mcerne@aol.com

 

I had to trim some of the undercoating to get mine fitted, too. At first I couldn't get bolts for the swaybar mount started in the subframe. After dropping the subframe again slightly, I trimmed only as much as I had to and got the bolts started. Then I tightened everything back up, compressing the undercoating slightly with the swaybar mount. For me it wason the driver's side.

 

Thanks for the information as I have been obsessing about this... I put some extra 3M undercoating on mine too, just to be safe... Matt

 

I installed my H-sport competition bar this past Sunday, with help from friends, and I like it. The car still has a little body roll but that is fine as long as the front stays planted. And it does stay planted. It almost gives you the impression leaving some turns that the car is driven by more than just the front two wheels. I have it set to the softest setting as I only venture on occasion to the track for a Phil Wicks day of adventure.

I had gone to Phil Wicks in my 03 without LSD and using the stock bar and realized what I needed to get for better performance. I was constantly loosing traction leaving some turns and basically had to let off the gas to get the weight back on the front end.

This lead to my first adventure in testing how the bar and LSD would work together. Being a Sunday, schools were closed so I headed to the parking lot. I found a good spot, stopped and turned the wheel fully to the right. Let off the clutch in 1st and started going in very tight circles. It was amazing. No traction loss what so ever and no push at all. The car felt less like turning and more like it was rotating.

 

That's exactly how it feels to me

 

Added the H-Sport Sway bar and the H&R springs to my MCS back in July or August. Wow what a feeling. The one thing I did not like was the negative camber on the rear. Tire wear reasons mostly.


I added an Eibach Springs Camber kit and now, no negative camber on MINIBLU.....

Thoughts? Randy?