Hello, I recently bought a used 2013 GP2 but i have awful roads where i live. This car will be a track car (6 a year), and im a complete beginner.

Im looking at some Ohlins dampers for their increased ride comfort without sacrificing track performance, however i have some doubts about how they would work on a GP2, since its setup differently to most other models.

The GP2 has a lower ride height and -1.5 camber up front because of this. It also has a smaller RSB than both the S and JCW, it uses the base models 17 width swaybar. This last bit, i believe is because the GP2 has 400 springrate rear springs.

I have two main questions for the more experienced members of the forum.

1. If i switch the setup to Ohlins at their suggested height, i would lose the negative camber up front. I know i can solve this with the Vorshlag Plates, but i dont know what -1.5 camber means. Is this the absolute value or is is camber -1.5 more than stock setup?

2. By going with Ohlins' softer rear springrate (closer to stock setups), I would have to get a thicker anti rollbar to prevent understeer correct?

Thanks!

 

1. The camber is an absolute number, -1.5 means the tops of the wheels are tilted toward the center of the car by 1.5 degrees.

2. Spring rates for the Ohlins BMS Mi20 kit are Front: 70 N/mm(400 lbs/in.) Rear: 60 N/mm(343 lbs/in.) Don't know off the top of my head what the spring rates are on the GP2, All the advice I have read says to run as stiff a spring as you can and then use the sway bar to tune more more or less understeer/oversteer. I run a 22mm RSB with the Ohlins, pretty sweet setup.

 

The ohlins are height adjustable, as are the bilsteins that come with the GP2. So with both setups you can increase or decrease ride height from the "recommended" height. That is one of the advantages of coilovers. Raising and lowering will not dramatically change camber, although it will more affect toe. You will need an alignment. No real need for camber plates initially.

The stock GP2 spring rates are 70n/mm front and rear, which is not so dissimilar from the ohlins values quoted above. The spring rate is not the only determinant of "stiffness", the shocks are equally important. The ohlins are known for a relatively compliant ride.

I would not change the RSB until you see how the car handles with the ohlins. BMW put the smaller RSB in for a reason. The car was designed for high speed circuits such as nurburgring. On fast flowing circuits you want the rear to be stable and planted. This is probably why ohlins have gone slightly softer in the rear as well. If you are doing tight and lower speed events like autocross, then that is completely different, and you probably want a looser rear end to help the car around tight corners. However, as I said I would try it with the stock bar first, and then make a decision

 

^ good advice, change one thing at a time.

A couple of things to note about the Ohlins: 1) changing ride height means changing the spring pre-load. Some coilovers the height and preload can be set independently, as a practical matter I don't know if this makes much difference. 2) you should expect to rebuild them at 30K miles. I'm getting ready to send mine in for rebuild, Ohlins says expect $750 - 800. But that's better than buying a new set.

 

Ohlins DFVs in other cars have independent height adjustment from preload, is that not the case in the minis ?

 

Nope. Link to the kit for R56: https://www.ohlinsusa.com/parts/2007...l=cooper-s-r56

 

Just a side note, Ohlins do not go very low and if you go outside of their specified height range it may start to rattle, it even says it in the manual. Good coilover all around though, depending on your purpose.

 

****, i took it as a given that it would get to normal GP2 ride height without changing any of the specs. Ill have to look at GP2's stock ride height vs standard Ohlins height and see where that gets me camber wise.

As far as them not going very low before rattling, it really isnt an issue for me, i honestly dont like cars being to low, id not go past the stock height.

 

Ohlins will drop you about an inch, you can wind it back up though. My fronts are out for rebuild right now, when I get them back I'll post some before/after measurements.

 

I own a GP2 and have like 10 customers with them and we have done various setups on them and been happiest with our custom KWs as they ride well for the street daily, but still performe at the track.
https://www.waymotorworks.com/kw-var...r55-56-57.html
we always pair them with the Vorshlag camber plates as that lets us get the camber exact, and replaces the stock rubber mount. The GP2 being lower at the factory and they slotted the strut towers to allow extra camber, but it's a small adjustment.
https://www.waymotorworks.com/vorshl...5-r56-r57.html
this same setup is also on my daily driver JCW Clubman

As for Ohlins we sell those too, but have had customers actually complain it's too hard for daily use so if you want a better ride this isn't what I would recommend.
https://www.waymotorworks.com/ohlins...-57-58-59.html

For the rear sway bar, hands down this should be the first mod for the suspension to get the car to turn. And don't know where the 17mm sway bar size came from but mine and the last 3 GPs I did sway bars on all had the JCW 18mm bar stock. I would go with our 25.5mm bar on the middle setting as it is ideal, and proven over the years to be the best.
https://www.waymotorworks.com/wmw-rear-sway-bar.html

Don't forget you also need rear adj control arms, I put them on the 3rd day I owned my GP2 as I wanted to get the alignment right as the factory ran almost 2 deg of Neg camber in the rear.
https://www.waymotorworks.com/h-spor...ber-links.html

 

Damn, i already ordered the Ohlins, i had always heard of them improving ride quality, but that was on other cars, i thought this would be the case here as well.

As for the RSB diamater, its what i read online, but you should know better than most, what is the front diameter? I like to write these things down and have all the proper info for the future. Did you leave the front stock?

What is the proper alignment for these cars from your perspective? I dont know much about this , so dont know how bad -2 camber is at the rear either.

PD: I tried to enter your website a couple of times since i bought the car and see your comments on other threads, but i always get a page not available message.

Thanks!

 

I love the ride quality from my Ohlins, firm and well controlled but not harsh. For alignment, I have been running -2 degrees all around, I rotate the tires every 5K and have very even tire wear.

If you can't access waymotorworks.com, you are probably outside the USA.

 

I have the Ohlins on my R56... love the way it rides and handles... The spring rates are a bit stiff but not harsh... and the ride height looks the way it should... not too low and not too much gap. It remains firm but compliant when needed... and does not "pack out" on rebound.

Ohlins did a great job of getting these shocks well valved and setup right out the box... that is what they do well.

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I know Bilstein is troublesome to get nowdays but for the life of me, I have no idea why people bypass them so much in their suspension consideration. Bilstein has been the most longest lasting and most durable suspension ive tried!!! This goes for their "Sport Shock" (the B8) and even their B14 PSS9 and B16 PSS10 coilover set ups. Not sure which set up comes with the GP2, but everytime i investigate Ohlins suspension I always see feedback from Ohlins owners saying they have sent something back for a rebuild or revalving of some sort. When I do the same research on Bilsteins, I don't see anything like that. Which is why ive chose to stick with Bilsteins, and this is over a 20 year span of upgrading my suspension on numerous cars, Maybe I'm just lucky but I've NEVER had a Bilstein shock go bad on me, nor have I needed to send them back out for servicing. I will say this, the closest thing ive felt that is as compliant as the Blistein coilover set ups that ive run is that one Way is talking about: that KW-V2 with them TSW springs. Guy i met local to me has this on his JCW R56 and OMG does he have it dialed in!!! Said it was a pain in the *** to get it to the point where his settings are now because you cant adjust them as easily as you can with say PSS10's which have the control adjuster at the bottom of each shock. I think he told me he had to take his rears off like 4-5 times to get it right. I swear if he ever decides to sell his set up I am going to be ON IT just due to how he has the height and rebound dialed in so perfectly (and this is with an 18" wheel/tire set up). Most don't run that size which I think makes dialing in even harder. Point of my post is if you want to really investigate what suspension to buy, go to your local track or attend an auto-x event and see what mini owners are running as you'll get the most honest feedback ever. Most of them ive found have run several different brands and know the intricate differences from spring rates, to adjustments, to durability and even servicing. From all the coper owners ive spoken to at these events, Ohlins is a coilover that is NOT at the top of their list. Brands ive heard repeatedly are KW, Bilstein, and AST (in that order).

When I asked what is a recommended STREET ONLY set up, I was surprised to see how many told me to NOT get coilovers, all said its overkill. You'll get a better ride with an independent shock Bilstein or Koni Sport and stick to your height being controlled by an independent spring set up like Eibach, Swift, NM, AST, H&R. All told me, no need to overspend on coils if for a street car with the edge going to Koni for dual duty (occasional track use) because of their rebound adjustability.

 

Hi all, Ive had some issues with another car and will just get to do the install this coming week. I was wondering if anyone has experienced with going to the highest ride height allowed by ohlins. Would this make the car more comfortable given preload would be reduced and suspension travel would be increased?

If my previous logic is correct i might go for that rally vibe on the road and then do standard height when the trackday approaches.

 

My MINI with this OHLINS R&T adjustable coil-over package sits a little low and does indeed rattle on the springs a bit as installed.
I'll be taking mine into an Ohlins auth install shop that specializes in Mini/BMW to adjust it back to the Ohlins-engineered-package ride-height
It will be corner balanced and aligned with swaybar and rear Hotchkis bars setup for good tire wear and good contact while cornering.

I want full avail travel, good control through that travel because of the excellent 'off the shelf' valve stack and single bypass adjuster in the R&T.... (the single adjustment affects both rebound AND compression characteristics on these struts/shocks)

As far as "PRE LOAD" goes:
"Preload", for our applications on our Minis with coil-overs, is referring, correctly, to the load on the spring when the shock is fully extended.
Preload only changes with the springs in this R&T package when one of these (3) scenarios occurs.
1) The Strut/shock is OUT of the car on the bench and you crank up/down the spring adjuster beyond 'zero preload'
2) The Strut/shock is on the car with ALL weight off of that damper.... and you crank up/down the spring adjuster beyond 'zero preload'
3) You have tightened the spring adjuster up so much that the strut/shock is fully extended, even with weight on the car. (BAD)

Technically, I believe, that when the car is sitting with its full weight on the tires .... the preload on the coil spring remains the same with all height adjustments until you reach full extension of the shock and cant extend any more.

As you 'crank it up'... you are simply raising the ride height of the car as the 'load' on each shock/spring remains constant... until you have reached the limit of extension for that damper, or you leave the pavement and the shock goes to full extension.

Until you adjust the spring to the point where you "top out the shock" against the stop... you are not changing "pre load" with a given load.... if you keep the F/R balance the same.

Pre-Load, again, I believe... is related more to a shock that has its load removed and is at it limit of travel... as you 'crank it up' you are working against the stop (generally shaft extension travel is limited by an internal jounce bumper or the top nut of the piston valve stack)

Of course... if you crank up the adjuster nuts to the point that you've topped out the shock with car resting on the tires fully and are pressing against the limit of travel... then, yes, I believe that you are increasing preload at that point... which is not good as you DO want SOME squat/droop built into the setup. you will get a jarring ride from a shock that tops out at rest if adjusted to that limit.

There is a sweet spot for ride height and spring adjustment.... in terms of "squat" or "droop" .... and getting available travel so that you are more in control of the car. Too loose and you can have rattles and also run the risk of losing a retainer (bad) when you leave the pavement on a spirited drive!

You will loose suspension travel, and your ability to deal with different terrain... both on road and track.... when you lower the car with a given shock/strut/coilover setup.
And on a mini... there is not that much travel to start with.

I'm sure there are some packages, like this OHLINS R&T package, that are designed to maintain travel with some lowering of the car... 18mm lower than stock (almost 3/4") while still maintaining suspension travel.

As pointed out above... This Ohlins R&T package will 'rattle' when the car is lowered more than Ohlins designed this suspesion upgrade was designed for.

IMO, look at the adjustments as a way to 'balance' the car through minor adjustment in the spring perch... accounting for mfg tolerances in the struts/shocks.... and differences in car weight-distibution and driver weight and anticipated payload.
Also IMO... Do not look at the adjustments as a way to lower (or raise) the car outside of the 18mm drop engineered into the kit.
Besides causing 'rattles' in the suspension...IMO, the car will have a lower level of handling-performance than when you go lower than then engineered 18mm built into this 'Engineered suspension upgrade package'.

Lower does not necessarily mean faster or better handling... and shock installs.... when viewed in this light.... IMO can have good results.
I have seen people with great shocks... quality and capability... that have less than optimal handling and character from those shocks, because the adjustments or spring forces they have chosen have put them outside the "sweet spot" rather than inside the "sweet-spot"


Also.... when adjusting the spring height make sure to remove any load on the shock and soak the adjuster threads with penetrating oil... even on a clean newer install.




I believe that I will get the best handling-performance from engineered ride height that Ohlins recommends on this car with their package ... with these tires and wheels (Bridgestone S001 205/45ZR17's), Rear adjustable swaybar, and coilover/Vorschlag package, with good setup.... as I would with a lowered car.
I'm tired of tearing off the jacking points in normal driving situations with a "stanced out", lowered car.

A test result on the track will probably NOT improve if this car is lowered with all equipment being equal and setup properly for those ride different heights. [proper F/R & L/R balance, camber/caster/toe]

The Ohlins R&T setup will be lowered from stock by 3/4" when set at Ohlins recommend spring height... which is how I believe that Ohlins engineered this R&T package for.
Lowering this R&T package will give you LESS travel to deal with day-to-day on road or on track challenges... especially when you load and unload (or leave the pavement) the suspension.

I believe you will realize lower performance in terms of handling than the same car, setup for corner balance and ride height closer to the optimal level that Ohlins designed the package for... Sure, you can alter the ride height with the package... but what will the result be in terms of performance?

I've put my thoughts on the need for corner balancing with any spring height adjustable coil-over here CLICK HERE

For me... that performance is more important than "stance" or "Gap"... neither of which necessarily improve performance.... for others, looks are more important and thats OK too.

I believe that decreasing travel, by lowering, in all but 'all out' smooth track driving at the hands of a skilled driver, will have have a detrimental effect on the overall performance of the car.

Besides all of this...as you lower your car (less than stock) with only changing strut/shock length... you also change 'bump steer' character of the suspension.... something else to ponder.

As a side note: I do acknowledge that there are some coil-over packages that have independent spring-height and ride-height adjustments that could allow you to retain correct corner-balance and travel [ [i]'could' ].


Of course.... If I'm 'off' in my description I welcome any accurate fact based info to the contrary.... thats how I learn













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I'm getting excited ... I've Booked my appointment to have the suspension adjusted back to the Ohlins recommended ride height (-18mm from stock)... and get back some ground clearance and travel. Although it is corner balanced now... it sits lower than Ohlins recommends, and thus has less travel than I should have.

I anticipate better handling in the car following this work.... certainly better ability to handle some of the 'curveballs' street driving can throw at a car like this.




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