MIght sound dumb . .but whats the purpose of the camber plates??

 

skuzy,
With the stock camber plate you cannot adjust now much negative camber you have in the front suspension of the MINI. Your stock setting is about -0.1 to -0.9 degrees depending on your suspension setup. After much use it is possible that one side might be different than the other due to potholes and wear.

For those that drive on the track or at autocross who do hard cornering at speed, more front negative camber helps to make better use of the entire width of the front tire and gives an advantage which is measurable in lower times. You're making better use of your tires and allowing for more grip/traction.

When you add front camber plates they mount on the top of the strut and usually under the metal strut tower that you see from under the bonnet in the engine bay. You can loosen the bolts and move the top of the strut/shock to allow for various camber settings from positive to about -2.5 degrees.

The rear suspension cannot be adjusted for camber unless rear adjustable lower control arms are added. They allow for adjustment of camber for the rear.

Excessive negative camber in the front or rear will wear the inner edges of the tires as you drive on the street. Rotating street tires more often if you have more negative camber usually minimizes this problem of wear.

 

Here's the answer, and its not the one you'll want to hear.

As more negative camber is added, toe moves further in. So, if you've got a street alignment with marginal amount of negative camber and slight toe in, and move the camber to a track setup, you'll have LOTS of toe in... not fun at all on the track.

 

I can also confirm this tendency.

I had my alignment shop check toe with stock front camber set and as I had camber moved from -0.5 degrees (street use) to -2.2 degrees (for autocross) there was a change of about one half inch toe in. Since I wanted the autocross toe set to 1/16 toe out that would make the street toe in excessive and not good for my use.

For those that do change front camber at the track using camber plates they would also need to adjust toe. I don't make these adjustments and just run my autocross alignment settings on the street and it seems to be OK except for inner edge tire wear.
It becomes a great excuse to buy new street tires every 15,000-20,000 miles.

 

it should be pointed out that more negative camber is needed as a correction for body roll while cornering. as you increase roll resistance (primarily with stiffer anti-roll bars, but also with stiffer shocks in transiton-cornering, like slaloms) you need less negative camber. the way to tell how much camber you need is to heat up your tires on the track cornering or skid pad then measure tire temp across the width to see if the inside or outside is running hotter.

 

It has also been suggested that body roll be simulated in increments - degrees - to determine optimal camber for a given set-up. I'm happy to read your suggestion jlm, because the rate of lean and lean is affected by dampers, springs and roll bars. Thus, an across the board recommendation for 2 degrees neg camber for example may work for some while not others.

Using a pyrometer to check heat across the tread is help full, especially for determining a relationship between heat and camber - if you want your tires to hold up predictably for the entire race.

I've used this analogy in the past - for folks new to camber; imagine running in a straight line. Now turn as you're running. Your body leans into the turn giving you more bite on the running surface. Since our cars do not have ankles, we need to try to simulate that lean for various conditions and applications. Then, determine the amount of camber (bend at the ankles) to help resist slipping. Now, if you were to lean too far as you ran thru your turn, the outside of your foot would lift off the ground reducing grip. The same is true with too much camber. And don't forget to consider the inside front wheel too...

 

Minihune thanks a bunch for taking your time to provide a comprehensive answer
Ill have to remember this when modd'ing my MCS.
Cheers

 

A question for the smart people out there (excluding me )

I'm awaiting tein coilovers plus EDFC and it doesn't come with their pillow ball mount camber plate (if that is what its called)....
So I was wondering if any camber plates out there would allow for the EDFC to be on without any scary episodes.

I chose the EDFC mainly to adjust the rear dampers.. since you know its nearly imposible to change it without a battle. Tein wouldn't answer to my e-mail about any future plans or what if's...

I appretiate any input no matter how silly

 

think of it this way:

as the front suspension compresses, the camber stays the same (for the mini); camber being measured with respect to the chassis. But as the body rolls in a turn, the camber for the outside wheel WITH RESPECT TO THE GROUND, goes more positive. Assuming there is an ideal angle of tire to road for optimum traction, you need to set camber negative to compensate for camber going postive during roll. Point being, if you add roll stiffness, you need less negative camber.

 

this is the very non scientific way i do it. my tires like most have a roll over marking on the sidewall. it's just a little arrow on the side wall that lets you know how far over the tire can and should not roll. i mark this with shoe polish on each run at a track event. after a good 25-30 min. run i check to see how much of the mark is still there in comparison to the roll marking on the tire. if it's right at the tip of the arrow all is good in the tire world. if not, i add some pressure. i don't mess with camber at the track. tire pressure is easier to deal with. on my track days i usually start with these Psi's FL 40, FR 42, BL 38, BR 40 and then i work from there. usually my adjustments are up.



p.s. don't adjust your psi with a hot tire. wait, wait, wait. it works for me.



p.p.s. i use crazy amounts of camber in the front and back. the front i set back to street before i leave the back i deal with when i get back home. i'm hot and tired and don't want to deal with it.



Lazy