Suspension Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 175
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From: Cerritos, CA
Tony,
There was a significant improvement in handling from day one and was much more noticeable after I had the sway bars installed. What I liked was that Fabrizio at EF1 Motorsports, the guy who installed the CO's doesn't crank them, slamn them or whatever it is some guys like to do until after you've had them on the car for at least a week. He insists on allowing enough time for the bushings to settle then has you bring your car back for the alignment and sets the car at whatever ride height you want.
That said, my girlfriend and I spent several hours yesterday test driving this new setup driving through some of the local back roads here in Orange County. We had an absolute blast. The car truly handles like it's on rails now. At this point I just need to spend some time at the track to figure out the best setting for each of the different driving conditions.
There was a significant improvement in handling from day one and was much more noticeable after I had the sway bars installed. What I liked was that Fabrizio at EF1 Motorsports, the guy who installed the CO's doesn't crank them, slamn them or whatever it is some guys like to do until after you've had them on the car for at least a week. He insists on allowing enough time for the bushings to settle then has you bring your car back for the alignment and sets the car at whatever ride height you want.
That said, my girlfriend and I spent several hours yesterday test driving this new setup driving through some of the local back roads here in Orange County. We had an absolute blast. The car truly handles like it's on rails now. At this point I just need to spend some time at the track to figure out the best setting for each of the different driving conditions.
Originally Posted by TonyB
Anymore feedback guys? AMPR, if you had them installed when you mentioned, I guess it's been over a week already. Curious to know if everything is going well, and if your impressions are also favorable. Please do share...
dpayne1, I hope you got the set screw, and all is well. Alex, did you ever get them? Boy, I sound like a pest!
Thanks a bunch.
dpayne1, I hope you got the set screw, and all is well. Alex, did you ever get them? Boy, I sound like a pest!
Thanks a bunch.Last edited by AMPR; Jul 25, 2004 at 10:32 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Good information. I've heard the same from someone else about waiting on the fine-tuning until everything has settled. You might be one of the first though to get coilovers before doing the sway bar(s). Wow, the improvement must be night/day!
I think the minimum lowering is 1 inch. So, I'm guessing that's where you at now then. Thanks again and enjoy!
I think the minimum lowering is 1 inch. So, I'm guessing that's where you at now then. Thanks again and enjoy!
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
From: San Diego
Got the replacement parts from Bilstein on Thursday, installed them this weekend -- It took longer to find the correct size hex for the set screw than it did to install them. I also checked the front shock tops to see if they were holding up and they are just fine.
To round out the weekend, I installed my chrome grill and gave Coop a wash, deep clean, and a wax.
David
To round out the weekend, I installed my chrome grill and gave Coop a wash, deep clean, and a wax.
David
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 175
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From: Cerritos, CA
Unfortunately, something came up at the office that day so I was really late for my appointment. They were really good about it so I managed to get the coilovers done but had to go back that same weekend to have the sway bars installed. Having done that I can tell you that there was a noticeable improvement over the stock setup. Huge difference!
Originally Posted by TonyB
You might be one of the first though to get coilovers before doing the sway bar(s).
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Got mine installed with the P&D Camber Plates.
All corners are on the softest setting to get everything settled in so I can get the alignment done next week. So far I love the setup. It makes noises though....I guess this is because the sping does not sit on a rubber padding as the stock one at the bottom.
Alex
All corners are on the softest setting to get everything settled in so I can get the alignment done next week. So far I love the setup. It makes noises though....I guess this is because the sping does not sit on a rubber padding as the stock one at the bottom.
Alex
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Thanks for the update Alex. I hope the noises aren't too loud. Anyone else with the PSS9's getting such sounds? My order is pending the decision and purchase of some camber plates... Thanks again.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
From: Cerritos, CA
Tony,
Other than the M7 sway bar link arms, no sounds here. Could it be the camber plates?
AMPR
Other than the M7 sway bar link arms, no sounds here. Could it be the camber plates?
AMPR
Originally Posted by TonyB
Thanks for the update Alex. I hope the noises aren't too loud. Anyone else with the PSS9's getting such sounds? My order is pending the decision and purchase of some camber plates... Thanks again.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
For those that have the PSS9 kit:
Is the helper spring always fully compressed when the car is on the road?
I set is to the highest setting in the back....or close to it....and the helper spring is fully compressed when the car is lowered back to the ground.
Thanks,
Alex
Is the helper spring always fully compressed when the car is on the road?
I set is to the highest setting in the back....or close to it....and the helper spring is fully compressed when the car is lowered back to the ground.
Thanks,
Alex
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Also for those with PSS9's 
:
About how much camber can you get in the front before the spring diameter becomes an issue (impacting)?
Looking at the various pros/cons of both the PSS9's and Ledas, a smaller diameter spring would allow for more adjustment. The Ledas have this as a positive, but if I can achieve a range to suit my desires with the PSS9's, then having more would not really be a huge factor...
Oil-filled Ledas (not the gas emulsified one) without the remote reservoir can be had for about the same price (see Randy Webb) as these PSS9's. So, price is not a factor. Given that Randy has had much input on spec'ing the Ledas to our MINI's, I've always been leaning that way. Heck, he even wants corner-weight figures so they can be customized! While the Ledas have idependent adjustments, and more of them, it is also easier to do so. The PSS9's seem to last longer though. Doing a rebuild every 30,000 miles on the Ledas compared to none for the PSS9's is certainly a consideration here...
I can go either way here, really. Has anyone else gone through such torment is trying to decide? I don't track the car (might someday), but I live in a canyon, so my commute is more spirited than most...
Thanks guys!
:About how much camber can you get in the front before the spring diameter becomes an issue (impacting)?
Looking at the various pros/cons of both the PSS9's and Ledas, a smaller diameter spring would allow for more adjustment. The Ledas have this as a positive, but if I can achieve a range to suit my desires with the PSS9's, then having more would not really be a huge factor...
Oil-filled Ledas (not the gas emulsified one) without the remote reservoir can be had for about the same price (see Randy Webb) as these PSS9's. So, price is not a factor. Given that Randy has had much input on spec'ing the Ledas to our MINI's, I've always been leaning that way. Heck, he even wants corner-weight figures so they can be customized! While the Ledas have idependent adjustments, and more of them, it is also easier to do so. The PSS9's seem to last longer though. Doing a rebuild every 30,000 miles on the Ledas compared to none for the PSS9's is certainly a consideration here...
I can go either way here, really. Has anyone else gone through such torment is trying to decide? I don't track the car (might someday), but I live in a canyon, so my commute is more spirited than most...
Thanks guys!
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Thanks Alex. David and I have a few PM's going back and forth, and I asked him again. I hope you get some replies on your inquiry (helper spring). Thank you.
EDIT: I heard back from David already! I'm going to go with the PSS9's :smile: .
EDIT: I heard back from David already! I'm going to go with the PSS9's :smile: .
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
From: San Diego
Originally Posted by AlexN
For those that have the PSS9 kit:
Is the helper spring always fully compressed when the car is on the road?
I set is to the highest setting in the back....or close to it....and the helper spring is fully compressed when the car is lowered back to the ground.
Thanks,
Alex
Is the helper spring always fully compressed when the car is on the road?
I set is to the highest setting in the back....or close to it....and the helper spring is fully compressed when the car is lowered back to the ground.
Thanks,
Alex
That is normal, the helper spring is there to keep the springs in place when the rear of the car unweighs. I don't think it does much else.
See here
David
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 140
Likes: 1
From: Newport, RI
So what is that word? Are the PSS9s a decent street ride? Any comparisions to spring replacement setups with stock shocks ie.; H-sports, Altas, etc? Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!
Cheers,
Cheers,
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
As I alluded to earlier, the fact that the PSS9's are pretty much maintenance-free is a big lure. Knowing that I would need to do a rebuild every couple or so years sort of put me off a bit. I guess I find that to be a bit of hassle, plus the down-time, and it costs a hundred bucks a pop - so times four... For a track only set-up, there is probably nothing better than the Ledas.
A couple folks have had some issues (oil leaks) with the Ledas as well... Maybe just early adopters...
And the PSS9's are more civil on the street. The Leda's, even on the softest of settings, are a pretty harsh ride, from what I've heard. It's all about what one wants, and then making some compromises when necessary. The PSS9's just seem to be a bit better for what I desire....
A couple folks have had some issues (oil leaks) with the Ledas as well... Maybe just early adopters...
And the PSS9's are more civil on the street. The Leda's, even on the softest of settings, are a pretty harsh ride, from what I've heard. It's all about what one wants, and then making some compromises when necessary. The PSS9's just seem to be a bit better for what I desire....
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 140
Likes: 1
From: Newport, RI
TonyB - Thanks for the response. I had PSS9s in my Carrera 2 that was used mostly on the street as a daily driver and about 5 track days a year. I was very pleased with the all around qualities. In fact I've had bilsteins in probably 8 or 9 cars over the years. The MCS has a stiff ride to begin with and in this neck of the woods here in RI, I don't want to go any harsher. I put in some M7 springs last week and they are too soft on the initial compression as well as being lower than what I would like. The $ are not the issue, I just don't have any real world experience with the PSS9s for a street MCS.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Reviving this thread out of need guys. It's a long story... but I would like to know if someone can tell me the length of the front shock body (PSS9)? This desired measurement is from the base of the shock body to the top of it, where the rod/piston comes-out...
I should have asked Alex before he installed his . Much appreciated.
I should have asked Alex before he installed his
. Much appreciated.
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
From: San Diego
TonyB
I measured my front Left Bilstein, and from the top of the clamp (at the base where the shock body/tube connects to the MINI0 to where the rod comes out of the shock body is 8 7/8". From where the rod comes out of the shock body to the very bottom of the shock tube is 10 1/2"
I measured my front Left Bilstein, and from the top of the clamp (at the base where the shock body/tube connects to the MINI0 to where the rod comes out of the shock body is 8 7/8". From where the rod comes out of the shock body to the very bottom of the shock tube is 10 1/2"
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
dpayne1 - Thanks for the measurment, and the attached photo served as a nice visual. As I expected, the PSS9 was going to be less than 12" (the entire shock body) - which is great for my application. Much appreciated.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
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Originally Posted by dpayne1
Received the new PSS9 coilovers today and had them on the car within 3 hours. The set comes in a nice professional package, two spanner wrenches, clear instructions, nice finish and everything fit perfectly. First test drive around the neighborhood was wow. I can tell the spring rates are higher but the fact they are progressive makes them just fine for the street. I set the rebound to 9 all around (softest) and the suspension is quieter and smoother with these coilovers than my previous configurations, plus I went out of my way to run over bumps, manhole covers, etc. Tomorrow I get to autox on them and learn which rebound settings work best for my driving style (not real fast) and car setup.
So you know, I've run stock shocks with H-sport springs, Leda's with 3 different sets of springs and lots of rebound settings, and have even run Leda's in front with stock shocks and H-sport springs in the rear.
I was unable to get a alignment done this afternoon, but was able to get my camber settings very close to what I had before. (-2.2 F, -1.2 R) The Bilsteins use the stock tops in the front and I can report that they work fine with the RDR camber plates. The rear adjustment is easily reachable - it is near the bottom -- the front adjustment is under the tube at the very bottom.
Some weights as promised for TonyB:
So you know, I've run stock shocks with H-sport springs, Leda's with 3 different sets of springs and lots of rebound settings, and have even run Leda's in front with stock shocks and H-sport springs in the rear.
I was unable to get a alignment done this afternoon, but was able to get my camber settings very close to what I had before. (-2.2 F, -1.2 R) The Bilsteins use the stock tops in the front and I can report that they work fine with the RDR camber plates. The rear adjustment is easily reachable - it is near the bottom -- the front adjustment is under the tube at the very bottom.
Some weights as promised for TonyB:
- Front w/stock shock, H-Sport Spring, and top = 10 lbs
- Bilstein Front w/Spring, and stock top = 10 lbs
- Leda Front w/spring and top hat = 10 lbs
- Rear stock shock w/h-sport spring and stock top = 10 lbs
- Bilstein rear w/Spring (& helper spring) and stock top = 7 lbs
- Rear Leda w/Hypercoil spring, and stock top = 7 lbs
Thanks in advance,
Bob
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 243
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From: San Diego
On the street I run 9-9. I tried 9-8 which is a little less soft, but chatters across washboard surfaces too much for my taste.
Generally if you firm up the rebound in the rear more than the front, the car will rotate more readily. While autocrossing I have tried the following combinations (F-R) 9-9, 1-1, 9-6, 8-6, 9-7, 3-7, 8-7, 7-8, 6-4, 9-8, and 9-1 (on smooth grippy concrete). With my setup the optimal setting for autox on asphalt is 8-7 or 9-8. the 3-7 is ok on smoother surfaces. I've also found I have more front end grip when the front rebound setting is softer vs stiffer. When I've tried the rear much stiffer there is definitely lift throttle oversteer -- I've spun the car several times in the first corner of a course with the rear set stiffer.
Just understand that suspension tuning is still more art that science - with serious cause & effect forces at work and that my settings -- camber, caster, wheels, tires, tire pressures, toe, swaybar, ride height, + course conditions, and driving style are what worked for me.
Generally if you firm up the rebound in the rear more than the front, the car will rotate more readily. While autocrossing I have tried the following combinations (F-R) 9-9, 1-1, 9-6, 8-6, 9-7, 3-7, 8-7, 7-8, 6-4, 9-8, and 9-1 (on smooth grippy concrete). With my setup the optimal setting for autox on asphalt is 8-7 or 9-8. the 3-7 is ok on smoother surfaces. I've also found I have more front end grip when the front rebound setting is softer vs stiffer. When I've tried the rear much stiffer there is definitely lift throttle oversteer -- I've spun the car several times in the first corner of a course with the rear set stiffer.
Just understand that suspension tuning is still more art that science - with serious cause & effect forces at work and that my settings -- camber, caster, wheels, tires, tire pressures, toe, swaybar, ride height, + course conditions, and driving style are what worked for me.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by dpayne1
On the street I run 9-9. I tried 9-8 which is a little less soft, but chatters across washboard surfaces too much for my taste.
Generally if you firm up the rebound in the rear more than the front, the car will rotate more readily. While autocrossing I have tried the following combinations (F-R) 9-9, 1-1, 9-6, 8-6, 9-7, 3-7, 8-7, 7-8, 6-4, 9-8, and 9-1 (on smooth grippy concrete). With my setup the optimal setting for autox on asphalt is 8-7 or 9-8. the 3-7 is ok on smoother surfaces. I've also found I have more front end grip when the front rebound setting is softer vs stiffer. When I've tried the rear much stiffer there is definitely lift throttle oversteer -- I've spun the car several times in the first corner of a course with the rear set stiffer.
Just understand that suspension tuning is still more art that science - with serious cause & effect forces at work and that my settings -- camber, caster, wheels, tires, tire pressures, toe, swaybar, ride height, + course conditions, and driving style are what worked for me.
Generally if you firm up the rebound in the rear more than the front, the car will rotate more readily. While autocrossing I have tried the following combinations (F-R) 9-9, 1-1, 9-6, 8-6, 9-7, 3-7, 8-7, 7-8, 6-4, 9-8, and 9-1 (on smooth grippy concrete). With my setup the optimal setting for autox on asphalt is 8-7 or 9-8. the 3-7 is ok on smoother surfaces. I've also found I have more front end grip when the front rebound setting is softer vs stiffer. When I've tried the rear much stiffer there is definitely lift throttle oversteer -- I've spun the car several times in the first corner of a course with the rear set stiffer.
Just understand that suspension tuning is still more art that science - with serious cause & effect forces at work and that my settings -- camber, caster, wheels, tires, tire pressures, toe, swaybar, ride height, + course conditions, and driving style are what worked for me.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
I might be heading to 2-2 as well. I am currently at 8-7, and the ride is still way too bouncy for me. I feel like a pogo stick riding down uneven streets.
I admire those of you who can tolerate 9-9.
I admire those of you who can tolerate 9-9.