Suspension Koni FSD with JCW Springs installed
SMOG,
I think that the swift springs lower the car. You could also look at getting some 'non-sport' springs, if you wanted. There are occasional ads in the market for people selling stock stuff.
There is another thread about non-lowering springs, and I think that someone found that eibach makes springs at stock ride height. My TSW's only lowered the car about 3/4" from the original sport springs.
Just another opinion.
Have fun,
Mike
I think that the swift springs lower the car. You could also look at getting some 'non-sport' springs, if you wanted. There are occasional ads in the market for people selling stock stuff.
There is another thread about non-lowering springs, and I think that someone found that eibach makes springs at stock ride height. My TSW's only lowered the car about 3/4" from the original sport springs.
Just another opinion.
Have fun,
Mike
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 661
Likes: 24
From: Port Orchard, WA.
SMOG,
I think that the swift springs lower the car. You could also look at getting some 'non-sport' springs, if you wanted. There are occasional ads in the market for people selling stock stuff.
There is another thread about non-lowering springs, and I think that someone found that eibach makes springs at stock ride height. My TSW's only lowered the car about 3/4" from the original sport springs.
Just another opinion.
Have fun,
Mike
I think that the swift springs lower the car. You could also look at getting some 'non-sport' springs, if you wanted. There are occasional ads in the market for people selling stock stuff.
There is another thread about non-lowering springs, and I think that someone found that eibach makes springs at stock ride height. My TSW's only lowered the car about 3/4" from the original sport springs.
Just another opinion.
Have fun,
Mike
Did your MINI have the "Sport Suspension" before you started the spring/shock adventure?
I could go lower by 3/4" if I had to but 2 people and a load of luggage and gear would scrape getting out of my driveway. Our Cooper scrapes with 4 people in it and our "S" does not so the goal is non-scrape.
Eibach sounds like something to investigate.
What shocks did you put on yours?
Stephen
My car had sport suspension from the factory. I put the TSW springs on, then added koni yellows. I have the koni's setup fairly soft (according to the instructions), and am happy with them.
I've never run bilsteins, so I can't compare.
When my wife and 11 year old daughter are with me, the rear bottoms quite a bit. We ar all used to it (I normally give a 'bump' warning), but others might object if it was their car.
Mike
I've never run bilsteins, so I can't compare.
When my wife and 11 year old daughter are with me, the rear bottoms quite a bit. We ar all used to it (I normally give a 'bump' warning), but others might object if it was their car.
Mike
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 52
Likes: 1
The reason you aren't supposed to use lowering springs with FSD's is that the FSD feature is added onto the end of the piston rod. This causes two problems:
- FSD shocks have less clearance between the end of the piston rod and the bottom valve of the shock than stock shocks. If you run them outside of their designed travel range, you might bottom out the shock internally, which destroys the valving instantly. It only takes one hit and your shocks are done. You may or may not see a leak or feel the problem, but you WILL have reduced performance.
- There is less empty volume in the damper for oil and gas. That means the internal pressure will be higher even when run at the proper ride height. Run outside of the designed range, you run the risk of approaching hydrolock state, where the internal pressure increases exponentially near full compression. This can blow a seal.
Last edited by Jahan; Mar 24, 2014 at 06:39 PM.
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Recently I purchased a '05 R53 from a forum member running on FSD's with Alta springs, a claimed 1/2" lower than stock. Looks lower than that, but that may be due to the extreme camber that's chewing up the insides of the tires (-2.5/-2). The shocks were in the car for about 35k miles and aren't leaking.
The ride appears rather harsh over anything that looks like more than a 1/2" seam in the pavement. Bridges especially hit the car with such a vengeance, it sometimes sounds like the shocks are coming through the top of the shock mounts (which they don't, but passengers will think we just broke the car). Add in the extreme thunking and clunking from the fat 22mm rear roll bar, and I've been wondering if it isn't time to change things. Maybe I am just paranoid after reading that the FSDs are not to be lowered, or the roll bar needs to be replaced with something that doesn't sound like a two by four bouncing around in the trunk.
The previous owner did autocross with it, and I am sure it worked for that. Rides like a go kart, turns very easily, but I am more interested in track days at Road America, so right now I am wondering how to approach that suspension. My guess is the car is rather loose, even with the rear bar on the softest setting.
Maybe those extreme jolts when hitting a bridge seam on the road and the constant roll bar thunking in the back are normal? Note that I have not driven a passenger car in 10 years, just big soft trucks. I may just need to get used to hearing my suspension talk to me again.
The car runs fine, it's just the noise I am not so sure about. Perhaps I'll grab some of those shorter Fat Cat bump stops and revisit that rear roll bar before I spend a fortune on KW v3 coilovers, which was my first gut reaction to the noise .
The ride appears rather harsh over anything that looks like more than a 1/2" seam in the pavement. Bridges especially hit the car with such a vengeance, it sometimes sounds like the shocks are coming through the top of the shock mounts (which they don't, but passengers will think we just broke the car). Add in the extreme thunking and clunking from the fat 22mm rear roll bar, and I've been wondering if it isn't time to change things. Maybe I am just paranoid after reading that the FSDs are not to be lowered, or the roll bar needs to be replaced with something that doesn't sound like a two by four bouncing around in the trunk.
The previous owner did autocross with it, and I am sure it worked for that. Rides like a go kart, turns very easily, but I am more interested in track days at Road America, so right now I am wondering how to approach that suspension. My guess is the car is rather loose, even with the rear bar on the softest setting.
Maybe those extreme jolts when hitting a bridge seam on the road and the constant roll bar thunking in the back are normal? Note that I have not driven a passenger car in 10 years, just big soft trucks. I may just need to get used to hearing my suspension talk to me again.
The car runs fine, it's just the noise I am not so sure about. Perhaps I'll grab some of those shorter Fat Cat bump stops and revisit that rear roll bar before I spend a fortune on KW v3 coilovers, which was my first gut reaction to the noise .
Recently I purchased a '05 R53 from a forum member running on FSD's with Alta springs, a claimed 1/2" lower than stock. Looks lower than that, but that may be due to the extreme camber that's chewing up the insides of the tires (-2.5/-2). The shocks were in the car for about 35k miles and aren't leaking.
The ride appears rather harsh over anything that looks like more than a 1/2" seam in the pavement. Bridges especially hit the car with such a vengeance, it sometimes sounds like the shocks are coming through the top of the shock mounts (which they don't, but passengers will think we just broke the car). Add in the extreme thunking and clunking from the fat 22mm rear roll bar, and I've been wondering if it isn't time to change things. Maybe I am just paranoid after reading that the FSDs are not to be lowered, or the roll bar needs to be replaced with something that doesn't sound like a two by four bouncing around in the trunk.
The previous owner did autocross with it, and I am sure it worked for that. Rides like a go kart, turns very easily, but I am more interested in track days at Road America, so right now I am wondering how to approach that suspension. My guess is the car is rather loose, even with the rear bar on the softest setting.
Maybe those extreme jolts when hitting a bridge seam on the road and the constant roll bar thunking in the back are normal? Note that I have not driven a passenger car in 10 years, just big soft trucks. I may just need to get used to hearing my suspension talk to me again.
The car runs fine, it's just the noise I am not so sure about. Perhaps I'll grab some of those shorter Fat Cat bump stops and revisit that rear roll bar before I spend a fortune on KW v3 coilovers, which was my first gut reaction to the noise .
The ride appears rather harsh over anything that looks like more than a 1/2" seam in the pavement. Bridges especially hit the car with such a vengeance, it sometimes sounds like the shocks are coming through the top of the shock mounts (which they don't, but passengers will think we just broke the car). Add in the extreme thunking and clunking from the fat 22mm rear roll bar, and I've been wondering if it isn't time to change things. Maybe I am just paranoid after reading that the FSDs are not to be lowered, or the roll bar needs to be replaced with something that doesn't sound like a two by four bouncing around in the trunk.
The previous owner did autocross with it, and I am sure it worked for that. Rides like a go kart, turns very easily, but I am more interested in track days at Road America, so right now I am wondering how to approach that suspension. My guess is the car is rather loose, even with the rear bar on the softest setting.
Maybe those extreme jolts when hitting a bridge seam on the road and the constant roll bar thunking in the back are normal? Note that I have not driven a passenger car in 10 years, just big soft trucks. I may just need to get used to hearing my suspension talk to me again.
The car runs fine, it's just the noise I am not so sure about. Perhaps I'll grab some of those shorter Fat Cat bump stops and revisit that rear roll bar before I spend a fortune on KW v3 coilovers, which was my first gut reaction to the noise .
1. Check your toe. That is a good amount of camber and you could stand to lose a little, but toe is the bigger cause of tire wear. Camber is the "where", toe is the "how much." I run -1.7 or so and my tires are happy with 0 toe. I'd run less rear camber if you have adjustable rear arms.
2. A properly installed rear swaybar shouldn't clunk. Make sure the endlinks are tight. Relube the bushings...and better yet wrap the bar where the bushings contact with teflon tape.
3. With that much camber, I'll assume you have camber plates with a pillowball. That'll make things a little harsh on sharp edged bumps like bridges. I run and recommend the Ireland Engineering Fixed Camber plates, which are more like an offset stock top mount (rubber). You'll end up with about -1.7 degrees camber which is perfect for a street car and it's a smooth ride. The stock mounts are complete trash for an R53...these will ride smoother, last longer, and prevent mushrooming.
4. Dump the springs. You just can't lower the R53 much at all. Very little bump travel, and the car essentially sits on the bumpstops. JCW springs or stock are my recommendation especially with Koni FSD.
- Andrew
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Andrew,
thanks for the detailed response.
FSD shocks and springs went in 7 years ago, almost 42k miles ago. I just double checked that. could be getting up there in spring life cycle and bottoming out a lot more than it should.
The car does have Hotchkiss camber plates in front, but not in rear, nor does it have adjustable rear arms. There is a bill for Hotchkiss "Spherical Bearing M14" - is that something he may have used in back to get that strong camber without adjustable control arms? I do have the alignment report from 2012
The roll bar bushings and all bolts are tight (had the car on jacks both rear tires off to check), but there's a large amount of grease leaking from the bushings indicating problems in the past, plus seller gave me extra bushing grease to deal with the noise that way. I'd think that lack of grease would make it a source for squeaks, not a reason for the rather strong clunk I get on every little bump in the road.
I may just replace the bar bushings preemptively, plus the connecting rods with some adjustable parts. It is a hefty R-Speed 22MM bar.
As for ride height - it is not a daily driver, not even close. So it can actually be on the harsh side, low, etc, I am just trying to make sure I am not dealing with any major failure when I am clunking down the road right now or am driving around with a suspension that will self destruct.
No mushrooming whatsoever, but I haven't really looked at the bump stops very closely. Maybe they were cut and now are worn.
thanks for the detailed response.
FSD shocks and springs went in 7 years ago, almost 42k miles ago. I just double checked that. could be getting up there in spring life cycle and bottoming out a lot more than it should.
The car does have Hotchkiss camber plates in front, but not in rear, nor does it have adjustable rear arms. There is a bill for Hotchkiss "Spherical Bearing M14" - is that something he may have used in back to get that strong camber without adjustable control arms? I do have the alignment report from 2012
The roll bar bushings and all bolts are tight (had the car on jacks both rear tires off to check), but there's a large amount of grease leaking from the bushings indicating problems in the past, plus seller gave me extra bushing grease to deal with the noise that way. I'd think that lack of grease would make it a source for squeaks, not a reason for the rather strong clunk I get on every little bump in the road.
I may just replace the bar bushings preemptively, plus the connecting rods with some adjustable parts. It is a hefty R-Speed 22MM bar.
As for ride height - it is not a daily driver, not even close. So it can actually be on the harsh side, low, etc, I am just trying to make sure I am not dealing with any major failure when I am clunking down the road right now or am driving around with a suspension that will self destruct.
No mushrooming whatsoever, but I haven't really looked at the bump stops very closely. Maybe they were cut and now are worn.
You could use a new alignment...that's more rear toe and camber than I'd like. I would recommend adjustable rear control arms. Rear toe is a slight pain to adjust and I've seen a few shops just kinda give up before getting things right. Sucks.
The Hotchkis Spherical bearing whatever is probably the front camber plates.
You're right, a lack of grease would cause a squeak more than a clunk. If your endlinks are tight than I'd worry your rear shocks are on their way out OR something is loose with the rear shock assembly (top nut maybe). Properly installed, the swaybar should not clunk.
One thing with Minis...lower isn't necessarily better. Especially without coilovers. Low and stiff with lowering springs IMO is a downgrade in terms of handling because you need bump travel to soak up mid-corner bumps. You'll also be quickly overloading the tires. Coilovers help and can add some travel back. KW is a good brand...V3's adjusted correctly should ride and handle better than what you have now.
42k miles isn't too bad for your shocks, but it could be some hard miles especially with FSDs on lowering springs (not really supposed to do that).
- Andy
The Hotchkis Spherical bearing whatever is probably the front camber plates.
You're right, a lack of grease would cause a squeak more than a clunk. If your endlinks are tight than I'd worry your rear shocks are on their way out OR something is loose with the rear shock assembly (top nut maybe). Properly installed, the swaybar should not clunk.
One thing with Minis...lower isn't necessarily better. Especially without coilovers. Low and stiff with lowering springs IMO is a downgrade in terms of handling because you need bump travel to soak up mid-corner bumps. You'll also be quickly overloading the tires. Coilovers help and can add some travel back. KW is a good brand...V3's adjusted correctly should ride and handle better than what you have now.
42k miles isn't too bad for your shocks, but it could be some hard miles especially with FSDs on lowering springs (not really supposed to do that).
- Andy
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
two of those bearings sold for $30. that's some deal on camber plates. Maybe a part to add to the plates, but this was bought years after the suspension was installed and just before the final alignment.
I'll take off the rears this weekend again, take a closer look by actually taking some stuff off. Clean and lube the bushings of the bar and tighten everything. It'll have to hold a few months before I know where I am going with the suspension, but I know I am not keeping the current setup. alignment will come after whatever changes, and I know that for tire wear alone I will be reducing the camber.
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 459
Likes: 6
From: Renton, Washington
SMOG- Sorry of the late reply to your question but my setup is working good, however, I just installed softer short rear bumpstops to make the transition to full compression smoother. We'll see if it works over the next couple weeks.
I'll also be replacing my Eibach camber plates with Dinan plates & OEM strut mounts and Madness FCAB with Meyle HD (all rubber) or OEM (oil-filled) bushings soon because the current set-up transfers too much NVH. I'll probably also replace the cut-down OEM bump stops with a softer short aftermarket product like I did in the rear.
I'll also be replacing my Eibach camber plates with Dinan plates & OEM strut mounts and Madness FCAB with Meyle HD (all rubber) or OEM (oil-filled) bushings soon because the current set-up transfers too much NVH. I'll probably also replace the cut-down OEM bump stops with a softer short aftermarket product like I did in the rear.
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 661
Likes: 24
From: Port Orchard, WA.
It must be the earlier models w/sport suspension, or the later model MINI's without sport suspension that work with the FSD's.
I never cut down the bump stops in the front or rear. The rear always held up but the fronts proved to be a problem. Right now they are sitting on my workbench and I am contemplating writing/calling Koni to see IF they will replace this second set of front FSD's. If they do then I will put them in my '09 Cooper with standard suspension. I hate the idea of throwing them in a trash can!
The B8 Bilstiens with Swift springs work great for a firm ride (nowhere as soft as the FSD's) and they are more comfortable than the OEM Sport Suspension. The only way the Sport Suspension felt good was with 2 people in the car and luggage, lots of it
Thanks for your update, hope to see you at one of the events this summer.
I never cut down the bump stops in the front or rear. The rear always held up but the fronts proved to be a problem. Right now they are sitting on my workbench and I am contemplating writing/calling Koni to see IF they will replace this second set of front FSD's. If they do then I will put them in my '09 Cooper with standard suspension. I hate the idea of throwing them in a trash can!
The B8 Bilstiens with Swift springs work great for a firm ride (nowhere as soft as the FSD's) and they are more comfortable than the OEM Sport Suspension. The only way the Sport Suspension felt good was with 2 people in the car and luggage, lots of it
Thanks for your update, hope to see you at one of the events this summer.
Alliance Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 661
Likes: 24
From: Port Orchard, WA.
Koni replaced the second set of FSD's saying they did not know why they didn't work on the Sport Suspension Springs on my 2011mcs. They (Koni) replaced them with Koni Adjustable Yellows and I have not put them back on, but am going to sell them since they are new in the box.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
squawSkiBum
MINI Parts for Sale
15
Oct 2, 2015 09:21 AM