Hey all, I'm a noob when it comes to suspension upgrades so I need a little advice. I've been reading and it seems that a rear sway bar upgrade is a good start and it has "good bang for the buck." So it looks like I'm in the market for a new rear sway bar.

Right now I have the stock Cooper S bar which I believe is 17mm. The car is my daily driver but I am starting to Auto-X regularly during the spring, summer, and fall. I think that I have narrowed it down to one of the Alta sway bars. I like that they are adjustable so I can keep it mellow for daily use and make it more aggressive for the track.
I'm leaning toward the 22mm bar, but I'm not sure if it will be too harsh of a ride for daily use. I'd go with the 19mm bar but I'm not sure if it won't be enough of an upgrade.

Any thoughts?

 

19mm is recommended for a daily driver, but if you're tracking the car and you're a skilled driver, you're not likely to lose the back end with a 22mm on the street IMO. You could always get the adjustable 22 and set it soft on the street, stiff for the track.

I have the 19mm Alta and i'm happy with it.

 

That's what I was thinking. The loosest setting on the 22 bar is the same as the stiffest on the 19. What setting do you have yours on?

 

I have my 19 on full stiff and no issues, never had any scares on the street even when driving more "enthusiastically" than I should be.

 

With AutoX, you would want rotation or oversteer. That would mean full stiff for autox. But for the track (not the same as AutoX), you would want soft because you are likely to crash with unintended rotation. AutoX is lower speed and the setup of a car is quite different from track.

 

This is not true. The soft setting for a 22mm is about twice as stiff as the hard setting for a 19mm. There is no overlap in their stiffness range(s).

 

Yep, semantics blunder. Since the OP specified AutoX I think he knew what i was getting at, though.

 

I still like your 19mm setup. You can get rotation by changing F/R tire pressures for AutoX so you do not have to live with constant oversteer.

 

Thanks for the replies. I did mean autos when I said track. I think I'm leaning toward the 19 inch. The 22 might be too much for a daily driver.

 

I bought a 22mm bar and drove with it for about a thousand miles.

For my Justa with an automatic, is just simply too stiff. It makes the rear end feel like its slipping and let go abruptly. On wet pavement, the car was a handful.

I pulled it out and went with a 19 mm. For my purposes and driving style, its perfect.

I don't track the car, but I do play with it a bit. I have 205/50/16 Avid Envigors, and, to me the car now just feels well hooked up. No more lean in quick fast turns. The car justs turns, recivers and scoots off just whered you point it. It makes the car so much fun.

Changing bars is easy, but a royal pain because you have to undo the whole rear subframe. Give yourself a good cool Saturday morning when you do it, and just be patient.

 

For what it's worth...I have a 20 mm RSB (Whiteline, very nice) on the softest setting which is about the same as a 19 mm on the stiffest setting and I find it very easy to cause rotation in the car. Sometimes too easy. As Slinger said - on autox this is good, on the track not so good and I have experience with both.

I would highly recommend the 19mm bar. The nice thing is that later on down the road (yes, pun) you find that with other mods and driving skill improvements cause you to think a larger bar is need, then it is a relatively easy change. But if you get a too big a bar now and you are dissappointed, it may be more than the bar that you are replacing

For autox or track there are 2 other very easy mods that will greatly improve the car...a set of fixed camber plates (Ireland Eng, my choice). They will make as much a change to the car's handling as the rear sway bar. The other is a lightweight wheel with about 42 or 43 mm offset (on the 17" wheels). This will keep the tire from tucking under on turns and scrubbing on the sidewall (with which I had a lot of problems till I made this change, even with the other changes). That offset is not reduced to a point that torque steering becomes an issue. Less offset = more torque steer.

The best part is - this setup (sway bar, camber plates, light wheels) makes for a fantastic DD with no change to ride quality. You will wonder why this is not an option that mini sells.

Enjoy

 

BTY - one trick to replacing the rear sway bar is to not remove the 4th bolt holding the subframe. Just loosen it. That way there is not a problem putting the frame back into place. This is a 2 - 3 hr job depending on abilities, tools and how rusty things are. Otherwise, straight forward and there are some good DIY threads covering this subject on NAM.

 

Well either one will give you an improvement. It really comes down to you. If you are planning on getting serious with your AutoX you really are going to want the 22mm bar. A 19mm for AutoX is just not enough you need to get the car to rotate very quick and a 19mm will leave you wanting more. If your car was strickly a street car I would suggest the 19mm on the middle or full stiff position. If you are concerned about the 22mm for street use put it on the soft setting.
FYI: Also notice that some of the people that have suggested the 19mm have a Cooper NON S, which is different since it has less weight, different shocks, and springs. And I would recommend the 19mm by far if you had a non S.

And finally check out the Hsport sway bars they are by far the best available. NO noises, great fitment, adjustable, and quality powdercoat. The comp bar is the same as a 22mm just much lighter.

 

Bump ...

 

+1 on the H Sport! It is a SOLID bar. The Alta is welded.

 

I will check out the h sport bars. Mine is a cooper s with the jcw engine kit and brakes.

How easy are they to adjust? I would want it on the loosest setting for daily use and then tightest for autox days.

 

Slim Jim, just noticed that your car is very similar to mine. Do you have the 22 comp bar?

P.S. where did you get your signature graphic done? It looks great.

 

I would say that a heavier car with more power (such as yours) I would have done the stiffer, larger bar. I have thought of going to the 22mm bar on my cooper just because my 19mm rear sway is set at full stiff and it still feels like a little more rotation could be added...

I also have the Alta but I have heard good things about the H Sport too. If I were doing it all over again, I would have to weigh in all options. As long as you stick with a reputable company that builds quality parts, you can't really go wrong!

 

I installed an Alta 22mm on the softest setting on Zippy 2. I DID NOT notice any significant changes during routine "daily driving." I DID notice a huge difference in the "Glue" factor, (I think it went all the way up to Gorilla or something similar).

 

One thing to think about is whether or not you want to increase the negative camber in the front by using the minor stock adjustment (move in slot), fixed camber plates, or adjustable camber plates. Increased negative camber is a big benefit for Auto-X.

As Way mentioned for Auto-X you want oversteer but you also want your car to be driveable on the street, especially in an emergency accident avoidance situation.

If you are not going to increase the front negative camber (other than the minor stock slot adjustment) than I would suggest a 22mm solid bar or the 25.5mm hollow bar (about equivalent to a 23 solid). I used the Hotchkis (H-Sport) 25.5 hollow with stock front camber and it worked well on the street and track on the softest setting. For Auto-X you can increase the stiffness.

If you are going to increase the front negative camber (to the -1.5 to -3 deg range) than I would suggest a 19mm bar. When I had the 25.5 hollow bar and then added front camber plates adjusted to -2.2 deg, I found that the combination was a little too much oversteer for the street (even at the softest sway bar setting). I now use a 19mm bar with front camber plates. I want more oversteer for Auto-X but decided that the 19mm setup is safer for the street so it is a compromise.

The problem is that for Auto-X you really want a car setup (much oversteer) that is not very safe for the street or track. An adjustable sway bar helps solve the problem. 22/23 on softest OK for the street (with stock front camber) and can be adjusted stiffer for Auto-X. When you increase negative front camber the bar size decision gets a little tough. 19 not enough for Auto-X but 22/23 a little too much for the street. A 20mm bar might be the answer but I was never able to get hole ratings from Whiteline on their bar.

 

I am not planning on adjusting the camber. I'm just going with the bar for now. Thanks for the advice.

 

If your not going to add camber plates at least loosen the nuts for the front strut mounts and slide them in to get as much neg camber as you can, it won't be much but anything you can get will help, and improve tire wear. Plus this is a free mod.