Here we are again....a new product from M7 that will take the mini's handling from great to the
proverbial........... "Gokart"

At a scant 3.75lbs compared to 7.5lbs of the stockers these control arms will
allow better and faster steering response, you can literally feel the suspension loading up and
communicating thru the steering wheel. And the funniest thing is that it goes over bumps smoother
and quieter, following the road surface without bouncing and oscillating like the stock A-arms

And we did not stop with the arms, the stock rear control arm bushing
is one squishy contraption allowing the A-arm to move up and down and side ways changing Toe, Camber
and caster. To fix those problems we use Delrin and a self lubricating Bronze bushings controlling the
arc of the A-arm in a smoth but presice manner.

These puppies are ready for prime time in any color you want.....Hey why not

And as always call me, love to talk Mini :smile:

peter horvath
562-712-3270

 

SWEET!

More new and exciting things from M7...

...keep the goodies comming...

 

How much $$$ for a complete set?

 

And how difficult is the install?? :smile: :smile:

 

That looks very nice.

I expect the stiffness of the new bushing makes most of
the difference in feeling.

And nice color. Red is passe.

 

Powdercoat or paint?

 

Nice Peter, the venor sections says 699 I am guessing thats for a complete set?

now you need to get some fresh air cowel scoops, several of us have been waiting on these for quite some time.....

and sorry we did not hook up in Torrance in Dec. maybe I will get back to California and we can get together then.

Later, Kent

 

Hi Peter,

Are the bushings for both front and rear? If so, do I need to have the new control arms on the front or can I use these with the stock arms?

 

Peter,

How did you design the control arms? That is how did you determine the static and dynamic load requirements for components? Did you use a finite element model? Any fatigue testing?

Are they stronger than stock? How long did you test them on a car?
What kind of surfaces? Warranty?

I'm sure you didn't go at it with just ruler and a welder...

Thanks.

_________________

Treasurer, SCMM | paul@scmm.org

 

Doesn't Delrin compress over its' duty cycle, and subsequently not the best bushing material? Why not something more elastic, like polyurethane? I also see what looks to be a solid aluminum bushing that would be the "race-only" option?

...and as Asodestrom asked, powdercoated?
TIA,
Ryan

 

good morning everyone...

The arms was designed by a very well known chassis builder localy, many race teams use and depends on his designs
for their safety and also for it's performance.

The first set of control arms where built May of last year and has been on that car ever since. We pounded the heck
out of them, speed bumps, pot holes and any ruff surface we could find.
The first article was built out of 0.60 wall thickness with no fatigue or cracks. The new products wall thicknes
is 0.90 Tig welded Chrome Moly.

As for the Delrin I have nothing but possitive experiences, I used it liberaly in most of my race cars thru the years
with no problems, it does not give like Polyurethane and it will not sqeek when dry.

The finish that comes "free of charge" is an epoxy coating, but for an extra $50 powder coating is an option.

The bushing is for the M7 arms right now, but we are looking at the possibility of making a custom bushing for the
stock arms.

The aluminum bushing is a race only option as it first of all would be to noisy for every day driving and secondly
there's no give so there's always more stress on the A-arm.

Are they stronger then stock...no thats not possible, if you would compare them you would see an extra ordinary amount of material(steel) on the stock arm which equates to weight.

Warranty....1year limited no BS warranty.

The installation is.. "and I shall not lie"... no fun, but anyone with mechanical skills can install them in a short day.

price: $ 699 complete with bushings and epoxy coating

Hope this answered most of your questions if not let me know.

And as always call me if you have any questions


peter horvath
562-712-3270

 

Looks good, thanks for your time Peter.

 

having just wet my whistle on this part of the car, let me comment:

For install, you need to drop the subframe, primarily to get at the compliance bushing holder bolts. Specifically:

-put the car on jack stands giving about 15" under car clearance (or use a lift) and remove front wheels; 15 min;
-remove the front valance and bumper carrier (about 15 small bolts of various sizes...takes 15 minutes)
-pop the steering knuckle taper on each side at the hub; 10 min;
-remove the sway bar link from the bar: 5 min;
-remove the ball joint bracket from the hub (easier than popping this taper) 10 min;
-disconnect the bracket holding the powersteering fluid resevoir from under the hood and disconnect the three electrical connectors at the power steering pump and fan;
put a jack under the subframe to take the weight;
-remove the subframe bolts (about (these are torqued to 100Nm!) 15 min;
remove the compliance bush housing bolt to body (2 bolts);
-lower away, feeding the PS resevoir down with the subframe which has the steering rack, tie rods, power steering pump, resevoir and fan and sway bar attached!

the control arms are held to the subframe with a ball joint taper, you will need to pop that and the one you removed from the hub as well.

-remove the compliance bushing holder (and sway bar) from the subframe (4 bolts 120Nm) and press out the old bush with its steel sleeve;

-the entire operation takes about 2 hours; allow another two to break it down, fit the new parts and re-fit the subframe.

While you are down there:
consider fitting a new front sway bar;
fit a polyurethane bush to the steering rack (another overly compliant link in the front.

torque values for the bigees:
subframe to body, control arm ball joints to subframe: 100Nm (75 ft lbs)
compliance bush housing to subframe: 165Nm (120ft-lbs)

I put a photo on the mini2 site:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...925#post656925





_________________
""the onus of proof is on he who asserts the positive."

 

OMG sounds like a job for Randy

 

Jlm......your the MAN...

Thank you.

peter horvath
5652-712-3270

 

Peter,

The new arms look great, and although the install is apparently a bear, I think I'm up for it.

However, I'm having a hard time understanding the nature of the performance gain. I know that the new arms are lighter than stock but that cant be it right? Do they respond differently to stress than the stock arms? Are they the same dimensions as the stock arms? What is it? I'm just not sure I can shell out 700 bucks just to save 3.75 lbs (unless of course it turns out that it is a critical 3.75 lbs).

Thanks

Chuck

_________________
Motorin' ... right now!

 

I THINK that it might be 3.75lbs, per arm, but don't hold me to it... Either way, I understand what you are asking though - a very good question.

From what Peter described, it seems that there is much more feel in the steering wheel for what is happening on the road. I know that higher-end sports cars typically desire such awareness for the driver. It doesn't surprise me that the lessening of the weight makes for less bouncing also. Along those lines, I'd be curious to know how, if at all, this impacts torque steer...

A powder coat in H-Sport blue would be quite sharp

New toys to ponder...

 

i dont know if i read right but is it still 699 for one?? .. or is it for 4 of them? sorry.

 

I would guess for a pair...

 

Now, see, I'm not the only one that is interested in how things work,
and why performance improves when making a change.

And I REALLY don't intend any negativity. Seriously.

Calmly awaiting information.

 

looks like the bushings are less compliant so there's better feedback and it seems to be decreasing the unsprung weight, so wouldn't that be better for the suspension response?

 

Hmmmmmmm..........

How much of the bar would you select as contributing to
unsprung weight?

Some of it, but not all of it.

I'll need to think about it.

And also, what is the total unsprung weight? 30, 40, 50 pounds?
and if we include half of the weight of the bar as unsprung, will
1.5 pounds be noticible.

I don't know, but Peter says so, and he is the one with the bars
on a car.

Could I get the same improvement for much less money by just using lighter tires?
It's easy to save 1.5 pounds-per-tire. Certainly not in the $700 per pair range.

Anyone else have any experiences?

 

Hi Chuck......

As a Mini Tuner my quest has not been to gain tons of hp but making the car to respond and feel right.
Handling is the secret to the Mini, just ask some of the guys I race with, they got power, I have handling
now guess who is faster

The control arms is part of the "De porkization" of the unsprung mass, making the suspension work
more efficiently. The Delrin/Bronze bushing replaces the Rubber unit, minimizing deflection in the assembly.

What will this do for the driving experience? Remember when you went from S-lites and run flats
to ...............(you fill in the blank) a sense of speed and agillity was added to the experience...

Torque steer is all but gone, the car tracks truer on uneven tarmac, it reacts faster on steering input,
less understeer, with more feel for what the tires are doing, and if there's a bump mid turn it will not stray
but simply track where you point the wheels. There's also an amazing amount of information being telegraphed
thru the steering wheel..... "It's alive". The steering wheel is moving back and forth giving you a sense of what the tires are seeing.

At first It was kind of disconcernig but now the regular steering feels all woody and distant. slow and tired
and not as involving.

The weight saving is 3.75lbs per arm a huge amount in the suspension assembly.

I hope that answered some of your questions if not call me....

peter horvath
562-712-3270

_________________
Lightest and fastest in SoCal

 

>>How much of the bar would you select as contributing to
>>unsprung weight?
>>
>>Some of it, but not all of it.
>>
>>I'll need to think about it.
>>
>>And also, what is the total unsprung weight? 30, 40, 50 pounds?
>>and if we include half of the weight of the bar as unsprung, will
>>1.5 pounds be noticible.

>>Anyone else have any experiences?
>>

trippy,

for a sparky, you're not doing bad with this mechanical stuff.

an oversimplified view: the location of the mass being removed in relation to the inboard pivot and the strut attach to the control arm detetmines "how much" the weight reduction effects the suspension performance.

if the mass was right next to the inboard pivot, reducing it wouldn't change the force on the strut much. if we guess that the mass of the control arm is halfway between the strut attach and the inboard pivot, then this mass reducuction is "half" as effective as reducing mass from the wheel or tire, whose cg is more or less at he strut attach point.

moving the wheel and tire outboard has a detrimental effect on the strut performance!

on another car i had, i did the "total" poly bushing makeover (let's have a new tv show about this: car makeovers!). the "liveliness" and "better feel" are from the stiffer bushing, not from the minor unsprung weight reduction.

i'm waiting for the fearless mechanical leader jlm to chime if he's completed his poly makeover.

flyboy2160

edited for more detail than the oversimplification: if we're considering the rotational inertia of a mass, that varies as the square of the distance from the rotation. so my half as effective a half the distance is actually being generous. it would be more like one fourth as effective. that is, saving 4 pounds halfway out the arm is about like saving 1 pound at the end off the wheel and tire.

 

Hi Flyboy...

You are partially right, but stiffer bushings are not the the panacea for better handling.
Let's look at the the best handling cars on the market, corvettes, NSX, Lotus etc.

All those cars have light weight suspension components, mostly aluminum. In the racecar world
light weight is the name of the game from the lowliest formula Ford to the most exotic Le Mans racer.

One of my customers drove the car today and the first thing out of his mouth was ' Holy Sh**"
The speed and the agility took him of guard, and the amount of information from the suspension system
to the steering wheel is staggering.
The other thing that really surprised me the first time i drove the car was the laser straight tracking
no matter how bad the road is, it consistently tracks straight like an arrow.

And all of you who do not wish to get new control arms.......check in next week

peter horvath
562-712-3270

_________________
Lightest and fastest in SoCal