Andy????

 

No Andy, if that was the case this site wouldn't be this large. The issue you have with m7 is just getting a little old. I think that you might be a little jealous because you don't have the means to produce aftermaket parts like m7 does. You need to get over it and move on.
If the person whose control arms broke is banned from posting, why is it up to you to be the messenger?

 

I don't really understand how so many people seem to think that twincharging the car was a reasonable cause for the failure.

1) forces from normal suspension movements (a typical bump at highway speeds) are much larger than those generated by forward acceleration - not to mention the extreme forces generated by something like a pothole.

2) braking forces are also higher than acceleration forces. If you open up the can of worms, then better say you shouldn't run modified suspension with race tires, or race pads.

3) Even if I were to accept that power could have caused the failure, at the time of this product announcement, M7 had already reported 275+ HP from their nitrous kit. If high HP numbers were a concern it seems like it would have been mentioned.


Anyway... not trying to pile on, just making observations. I wouldn't have considered buying these without at least a $200 price cut anyway.

 

No he has no good intentions, and he would love if we dissapeared fromthe
tuning scene, as he would get a bigger market share with the new business
he's involved with (name withheld)
As for not responding and then just do a readers digest comment is completly
out of the question......everyone would think we are hiding or have something to hide.

peter

 

makes sense, but it is kinda ugly to have a war here, hurting your credibility and reputation. Sorry to see you guys are going through this, however if you turn these short term negative impacts to your advantage, would definetely benefit in the long run. Good Luck...

 

I agree with Peter here. He had to address this issue as I believe it could be quite damaging.

To me the real issue here is the intense animosity Andy so obviously has towards M7. No problem with that, but his continual bill boarding of it out of control. This lower arm could have problems, but I can assure you that if it was with any other M7 customer car the problem would have been dealt with. It’s just so blatantly obvious that Andy’s only intension here was to damage the sales and livelihood of M7.

I do believe that producing a part like this and selling it to people who obviously have no clue of what they are getting into is a big mistake, and M7 should really think twice about doing so. This is a race part that needs the attention of such. This is a part that needs inspection after or before every race as most race parts do. This is not a part that someone should just bolt on and neglect, as this one seems to have been.

Anyway, this seems to be an M7 day …
All I can tell anyone here is that there has NEVER been any time that I can’t reach M7.

 

oh no, they are always available, there had been times they had replied my questions here on NAM around 1 am in the morning. Yeah, it is wrong.

Berk

 

Man, what a pissing contest. Jan seems pissed because e-mails with no text and an attachement were trashed as a way to prevent viruses. This happens all the time, and one can debate it to death. It is indeed sad that this has mushroomed, as opposed to them finally talkiing on the phone and sorting out the communication issues before it got such an ugly publick hearing.

Without extensive analysis of the part, there's no way to know what went. Maybe it was just a bad piece of steel? Who knows, that's possible. No one will know for sure unless the part gets some very serious failure analysis.

Now we have many people posting this's and that's when many of these posts include a lot of assumptions, not very helpful.

Anyway, I hope the rhetoric cools down, so some serious investigations can occure, and some real information determined. Till then, it's all speculative crap.

Matt

 

read posts 9 and 11.

It would be informative to hear Steen's comments; I doubt he would want his reputation to take a hit based on this issue. his 9 sec cars probably torque the shiit out of things.

 

BINGO!

I've enclosed a picture of the stress cracks that occurred in my 911 as a result of installing 32MM torsion bars. The car was never designed to take this sort of torsional stress, my installer was an idiot and had this not been detected by someone who knew what they were doing would have ultimately resulted in a catastophic failure.




Certainly there should be some concern around the failure of the part, but the reality is that once you start down the road of modding a car, particularly in a piece meal fashion, where that platform doesn't have a huge history of racing development, there's going to be things that fail in unexpected ways. I have no idea whether this part is underengineered, whether this particular piece was mismanufactured, misinstalled or a combination of ingredients led to a failure. Given that I've read on these pages much to my dismay that the factory part has failed on some cars, it strikes me that there might be some fundemental geometry problem with the MCS itself.

To my mind, what M7 is attempting to supply is a classic improvement, straight out of standard race prep. I've installed something similar in my track car (at significantly higher cost I might add, see pic below). This is a very well know piece for racing Porsches and any competitive car in PCA club racing has a similar upgrade. One difference here is, though, that the basic design of the piece was originally done by the factory for the 935. As far as maintainence is concerned, this car goes on the lift after every event and the entire suspension is inspected and checked for torque etc. Its simple common sense, and while it does cost money, its a lot cheaper than having something fail and going into a wall.

I personally can't grok where the problem lies here, but as a community I think it would be good to find out first and point fingers later. I'd also echo the wisdom embraced in Onasled's statement above. Whether this failure was foreseeable or not, factory maintainence schedules don't apply once you've ventured into this level modification.

 

I really don't understand how twincharging could be suggested as the cause of failure right now. The suspension is under the most stress during extreme cornering at the limit and/or hitting potholes and large bumps in the road. The only way I can see twincharging as a cause is if it caused a chain reaction of failed parts. If the half shaft failed from the extra power and hit the arm, then it is reasonable to infer that the arm could have failed from that impact. I think someone else suggested that previously. I would think though that the part would be designed to withstand something like that, or else come with a statement that it should be used specifically for racing or less powerful cars only.

 

I keep looking at this and wondering if I can fit it on my Mini ...
Very purdy....

 

Wrong. When you go over a pothole, the suspension arm has some way to give [it moves up or down freely!]. Forward and backward forces on the arm have no such opportunity for attenuation, since the arm just does not articulate in that manner. Plain and simple, the arm is not meant to see the kind of front-ward torque and acceleration that those power levels impart.

 

This is kinda funny, Recoop. I've asked multiple people where your beef with M7 began, expecting to hear that you had some part fail or ANYTHING, but guess what I heard? Apparently, you got pissed at M7 because they wouldn't continue giving you things for free. Guess what? No one's entitled to free parts, and it's sick that you're on some self-righteous campaign to smear them for no good reason.

 

I see it quite differently myself.
Only from what I've read here I am assuming that this particular Mini is mostly a straight line dragster, forgive me if I'm wrong ... (Why anyone would want to put these arms on a car like this beats me. Not too smart)

A brake like this is synonymous with the constant strain of the front wheels pulling the car forward and also wanting to toe in with a huge force. If the car does not have LSD then it's the driver side that gets most of that torque anyway.
In looking at the photos I truly believe that this brake was something that was not as sudden as we are to think here. I believe that that section at the weld (the trailing arm) had cracked a while ago and was either never checked or just neglected. That would be the highest stress area on that arm during acceleration. Unfortunately welding tends to weaken the metal around it.

 

Well it is truly hard to analyze what happened without knowing what the car was doing at the time of failure. All we can do now is speculate from the pictures. I just don't think it is right to immediatly blame it on twincharging. I agree with you though that the weakest area is the welded portion. Most likely it is probably do to a fatigue crack, as are many structural failures.

 

You are absolutely wrong in your statements; you are totally out of line; and you have gone beyond the limits of reasonable discourse!! It also is quite presumptuous, arrogant and totally inappropriate for you to impugn my character. Before you even consider making your self-righteous and audacious pronouncements, it would behoove you to get all the facts. Please note that I never wanted nor have I ever needed any free parts from M7.

Furthermore, I am on no campaign to smear M7. This is an open forum and I do believe that readers have a right to view objective comments as well as see responses to legitimate questions and inquiries.

 

Wrong assumption! The car in question is not a straight line dragster, but the owner's daily driver...

 

That's a lot of denial and lack of substance. You did nothing more than deny what multiple unassociated people have told me to be true. Multiple accounts have said the same exact thing. I am inclined to believe my reputable sources, and uninclined to believe someone so "opposed" to impuning people, when half of his posts do just that.

Plain and simple, I have heard very little to help your credibility, and don't you believe that I'm the only one who is skeptical of you. If you wish to prove multiple accounts wrong, by all means do so. I'm open to giving you credibility if you deserve it, like any decent but skeptical reader would be. But, until you do, I have a good idea of why you dislike M7, and I think you have a lot of nerve coming on here launching assaults on their credibility just because they won't give you free parts anymore. Hell, I've wired more than 5k over there and paid for every cent of my mods. You truly have no right.

 

"A daily driver." That says nothing. I've heard and even seen once on TMMZ of Jan's penchant for doing large smoky burnouts, especially while leaving MINI meets. Jan abuses his driveline. This is a car which has blown more than once. If you're gonna say that he, a professed "muscle car builder," does not dabble in drag racing and/or burn outs, you're kinda telling a half-truth.

 

"As for customer service, I think we are better then most, we always answer the phones, we always call back when people leave messages and if there's a problem we always ship replacement parts even before we receive the original
part back, a lot of companys would not do that as they are worried they going to get ripped of."

There is no doubt this is a true statement.... Peter called me no less than 3 times in two days to check on a part he sent overnight just to make sure i got it. He is always answers the phone, is helpful and has stood behind the products 100%, way and above the norm...... since I own a customer service business I think I can speak about this.... M7 is consistently proactive with new products and supports the Mini community. when looking for new parts I always look at Peter's site first to see his offering.

My second law/axiom : "it is easier to critique that to create" - Bob aka SpiderX.......

 

Again, you are completely out of line, and it concerns me not whether you think that I am credible. As indicated in my previous response to Peter, I really do not feel it is in his best interest to travel down that "slippery slope". If you are unable or unwilling to get all the facts, then it might be best for you not to make any further comments. Please be advised that I shall not be posting any of the information that I suggest you obtain.

 

Then where am I [or anyone else!] supposed to get this 'information' to vindicate you? That's kinda weak and just reaffirms my suspicions. Don't think for a moment that people can't see through your weak defense. With you acting as defensive as you are, if you truly could defend yourself, I do believe you would.

 

As I see it, Recoop's arguments have been directed at the substance of the issue. Ing howecver appears to be trying to disparage character based on "what he has heard" not even claiming direct fact. BS.

 

Hey just to lighten things up here a little...I wanta know how I can get my own title under the screen name like Jlm. If there's room for "vendor", "moderator" and "manufacturer"...then I want "designer" under mine...