I've been reading a lot of threads on suspension upgrade, now, I'm confused! I would like to drop my mini..so it doesn't look like a 4x4 with the wheel gap! "aesthetics" plus,I think my rear diffuser needs to be closer to the ground for full benefits I plan on tracking the car in the future!
So from what I read: lowering springs with stock struts =bad??
Coilover does that mean it has a strut and shock and spring? = all in one??
"like its Coiling -Over -something?
So lowering springs would require a matching improved shock and strut to be safe?

I guess, I can ask my dad, but he will probably just go for lowering springs!! he is old school! you know, back in the day when they would just cut springs to lower a 75Chevy pickup.!!

 

Your car already has coilover suspension. This just means that the coil is placed over the shock. When you hear people talking about coilovers here, they're referring to adjustable coliovers. These come with a threaded shock that has a ring around it to adjust the ride height.

You can lower your car much more with the adj. Coilovers. The price difference is usually the deciding factor.you can get a set of adj. coilovers anywhere from $600 to $2000.

You can buy a set of aftermarket springs for around $200 and lower your car plenty to get rid of the gap you're speaking of. I have a set of H&R springs and am very happy with them.

When you buy new springs, you need to remove your stock shock assembly and replace the springs with the new ones. You may also need to add adjustable rear lower control arms to get rid of the extra negative camber you will gain from dropping it in the rear. If you go with tge aftermarket springs, there's really no need to add camber plates to the front (also a big expense) because you will still be within factory specs with your alignment. You should have your car aligned after the install of the springs though.

I hope this helped. I'll follow this thread if you have anymore questions.

Good luck!

Chad

 

Whatever you do, you want different shocks. The Delphi ones are trash. Period. End of discussion.

As you are planning tracking it, It sounds like H&R, KW, or Bilstien coil-overs are quite popular. You want a larger rear bar for sure. If you are going to continue street driving, do not get stiffer springs. Those 7 or 8K springs are race only and unsuitable for street use. Stick with the 4 to 5K springs. Hint, if the manufacturer says "race" part, then they MEAN race part. Not Friday at the track. Not getting to work. RACE. You do not want to drive a real race car on the street.

You don't want factory alignment spec. Bad for handling. You want a bit of negative camber. The rear has pretty good geometry so it does not need a lot. Until you find your preferred ride height, you won't know if you need new track rods or not. If duel use car, get the TSW or H-sport the are NOT solid bushings. Stiffer than stock, softer than solid. Do the front camber plates at the same time to save the install cost. Some coilovers come with them, some do not. Be sure they are compatible.

On ride height, there are two issues. Travel and vibration. Travel is fixed by the shock design and hitting plumbing in the front, shock in the rear. You need to ask the experienced racers about target height and travel. The travel issue rules out shorter springs on OEM style shocks anyway. The vibration issue means that "normal" target of about an inch and a quarter is a bad height.

You might consider poly front control arm bushings.

All this cost a lot of bucks. I know "lowered" seems necessary to look cool. But is it worth three grand? If you want a car that is street-able but handles well enough that a few track day lessons will really teach you how to drive and have fun, then keep the springs, put in Bilstein shocks, rear bar, and de-camber by slotting the fenders. If your Dad is old school, he will know all about that. For under a grand, it can drive fantastically. Just still visually high. Let your time slips do your bragging, not the fender gap. Then save up for track tires and wheels.

If you want to get a fast head start on understanding suspensions, start with the classic "How to make your car handle", Fred Punn. Then go on to the series of books from Carroll Smith, Tune to Win, Prepare to Win, Engineer to win. These are smart guys. They won't tell you to how to make a Mini fast, they will help you understand what is going on so you can do it yourself.

The other must have option is either CG-locks or the H-clips from Babies 'R Us stores to allow the lap belt to be snugged up. You can't control a car if your backside is not strapped down. Much easier than adding a second set of belts.

Oh yea, the effect of the rear diffuser you are concerned with is not something to worry about at street speeds, and you are not ready to worry about it for track. Those are full race issues. Full race means you have stripped the car, welded the seams, installed a cage......

 

What they said + check out the threads on the vibration sometimes caused by lowering the car.

 

To avoid confusion, the Mini uses a "strut" up front and a "shock in the rear. They both serve the same function and just have different names because of the way they mount. They are both also called "dampers."

As others have said, a coilover technically is just a strut/shock with a coil spring mounted on/around it, which is what the car comes with. Nobody refers to the stock suspension as a coilover though.

What people generally refer 99% of the time to as a "coilover" is a height adjustable strut/shock and spring using a threaded spring perch, and is sometimes damping adjustable.

It's also very important to note that a coilover is not automatically better than a standard strut or shock. Some coilovers are really bad.

The stock dampers are really really bad though. Just replacing them with Bilstein HDs is a huge improvement for not too much money.

I am not a fan of most lowering springs for MINIs because they lower too far and the suspension does not have much travel to begin with.

What kind and what size tires do you plan on running at the track?

- Andrew

 

First and foremost, when it comes to track suspensions that fits you, it can be a slippery slope in terms of expenses. There can be lots of trial and error.

For someone who does not have much left of the stock suspension, I echo much of what Andyroo had said. I may have a little differing opinion on the stock shocks but that is really inconsequential.

The track oriented suspension setup depends on a few things:
1. Your track driving style
2. Your track driving experience
3. Your need for adjustments
4. Your ability to get feedback from the car and understand what adjustments to make
5. Your willingness to spend lots of money on alignments or do the alignments yourself
6. Your tires you run and want to run (and what tire pressures)

This is what I did so I am not saying it is right for everyone but it was right for me. I generally started with small known suspension mods that I could keep for the long term. This would be sway bar (19 mm to 22 mm but end up disliking both and would like to go to a 20 mm), adjustable camber plates (different types), control arms and end links. I understand some of these are for corner balance and adjustments. Then, I drove the "heck" out of the car for 1.5 years, with lots of track days, making all sorts of adjustments to really get a feel for the car. Some experienced racers and advanced track drivers have also driven the car on the track and on the street so I can get some feedback on what they feel and get opinions on what they would change. I find that the feel is more important in suspension mods than lab measurements because the car needs to communicate to you what is happening so you can decide what you want to do.

I did not want to make a shock or spring adjustment until I knew what I wanted to fix in the stock shocks/spring setup. And you rarely would have problems with bump stops on the track because the objective is smooth driver input and the track tramacs are generally quite smooth.

Then, this year I decided to complete the new suspension with a new coilover and a USS.

 

thanks! good info!

 

slinger what is your next setups going to be?

 

After going through 4 brake pads and 2 sets of extreme performance tires last year, I went into r-comps for the dry and extreme performance tires for the wet this year. This made it necessary to rethink some suspension (and brake mods). I did finally put in a TCE plus 3 front bbk with 13" rotors and forged FSL calipers.

Then for the suspension mods this year, I started with the M7 USS. The problem I was trying to fix was a slight vagueness in the front turn in usually under heavy trailing brake but not TBO. To me it just felt like the front end was flexing under near threshold brake. The USS did sharpen turn in but it exposed the problems with the stock shocks/springs. It exposed the delay in shock and spring response to an input to what seemed like infinity, although it was probably only a few milli-seconds. I had to initiate a turn, wait for the suspension to reacte and when it moved the loaded side springs into partial compression, I continued with more steering input waiting for the final compression before full input. This compressed the springs hard enough to gently put a full load on the tires to increase the tire grip.

That was when I knew I was way past what the stock spring/shock setup could do. I was doing too much to 'trick' the suspension into behaving well with such a stiff chassis, the springs/shocks had to be up to it which it obviously was not. I could still track the car and drive it fast and it still responded if you knew what to do.

So the next mod was the coilover. I selected the Eibach multi-pro R1.

I just had this installed for 2 track days so far and so not enough experience to give you a full run down. I have one more day in early October and perhaps may feel that I have more experience to comment on these. However, they are reasonably comfortable for the street. I just put back the stock RFTs and this made the car really rough on the street.

I think that would be it for the mods for this year.