I have a completely stock R56 naturally aspirated Cooper, and I'm looking into modifying it. The intake/exhaust stuff is pretty straightforward and I'm probably going to leave the brakes/interior stock (for now), but I'm getting lost in the various suspension setups.

I'm looking for something that will lower the car to enhance the look and generally increase agility while not totally killing the ride quality (which is already not so hot in my book). I live in a very urban area with a fair number of hills (downtown Seattle....) and pretty rough roads, so I guess I don't want to lower it TOO much; scraping the front bumper a lot would kinda suck. I never track my car (it's an automatic Cooper, why even bother?) and am just looking for something that would get me better performance and a lower stance while still maintaining daily livability.

After reading through the forums, I'm seeing a few options:

1. Factory JCW sport suspension kit - I'm assuming it's just the JCW's suspension treatment with mildly different spring rates for the standard Cooper?
2. Lowering springs on the standard shocks (H&R, TSW, Eibach, etc) - this is the cheapest option, but it sounds like they really max out the travel of the stock shocks and also reduce the life of the shocks quite a bit.
3. V-Maxx coilovers - the cheapest coilover kit at $600ish, looks great, meant mostly for street use, but are potentially pretty stiff and maybe not the best quality?
4. More expensive coilovers (Megan, KW V1, H&R) - More expensive than the V-Maxx by a ways, with the Megan's coming in at $1k and the KW/H&R being around 1.4k. Definitely better if you're tracking the car, but my concern is more with ride quality - better by enough to justify the extra $500? And do I really need $1500 suspension for a car that'll never be tracked?
5. Alta Sport Suspension - looks like a combination of the H&R springs plus a sway bar and endlinks. Don't know how it'd compare to the V-Maxx which has the same price.
6. New shocks (Bilstein or Koni FSD?) I don't know too much about these....

So I was wondering which would be the best way to go. I'm in favour of the $600 price point, but that's flexible depending on what's best for my needs. Right now I'm on the stock MC Sport Pkg suspension and 16" wheels/tires, but the wheels are going to be upgraded to black 17's (215/45-R17 size tires probably) at the same time I get the suspension done.

 

I just installed TSW springs on my s and love them. I got about 1/4 inch lower all around but the ride is so much better and body roll is almost non existent! Also with the TSW there is no need for new struts +points for me!

 

Please read all the threads on vibration problems when lowered. I would not lower it unless your ego (age) requires a minimal fender gap. If so, NM or H&R seem to give the best results from a consensus of the postings.

I love my Bilstein HD's for street use, stock S springs. It still needs to be de-cambered and a really good possibility that a larger rear bar is in order to balance it a bit more. They control it so well the run flats are not an issue. ( A justa is a lot softer and does not bounce in the air like an S) I would not hesitate putting stock S springs and HD's on a justa. This is for enthusiastic driving on real streets, day in and day out, speedbumps, construction and generally "wonderfull" Maryland roads with snow in the winter.

If I were to jump all the way to coilovers, even having really loved the KW's on my RSX, I would go Bilstein Pss 9's in a second. Watch out for spring rates that ate totally unsuited for street use. Even on my RSX, I had to reduce the the rear spring by 1 K to keep it from bouncing. You don't want your car to handle like a stock S! I have put on quite a few performance shocks. ( Spax AVO, KYB, Tockio, Koni, Boge, KW) I recently became a Bilstien convert. The word is "control".

You mention if cost is worth it. Be VERY careful and pay for quality. Pick the right parts, then get a fair price on them. Current products out of China are total garbage. Note in five years, that may have changed, but I am talking now.

A degree of negative camber is not to be taken lightly. It has more to do with cornering stability and feel that lowering would, at least on all of the cars I have lowered in the past. I did not lower my Mini due to the for-mentioned vibration mystery. Old guys like me know a car can perform quite well and still be street-able.

You mention all the intake is "pretty straight forward". Yes, but also consider the effect. You are increasing maximum flow at high RPM. You are also REDUCING torque by reducing velocity at lower RPM. Fro me, low end torque is where it is at. I put in a K&N filter and left it at that. Decide if 5 HP at 6000 is worth loosing 5 at 3000.

 

You definetly need to start with a 19mm rear swaybar, that will be your best money spent on the rear suspension. Then I'd look at either a set of NM engineering springs, or the TSW springs. That way you'll get the improved handling, suspension drop, and a nice ride without spending a fortune.

 

New here and a NOOB to MINI I have an R56 07 MCS if thats the right code for the model.
interested on more info on just doing lowering springs..
If you just do lowering springs will you need a camber kit for the alignment or the stock once will just be enough to get proper alignment to specs

thanks...

 

Will, Why do you want to return to stock camber? If you bought an S, I am assuming you care about performance so lowering is not just for looks. You WANT about a degree and a half negative camber. The effect can not be understated. It is not enough to give a problem with tire wear. Maybe a little, but you have to pay to play. Broken record here: Read the threads on vibration after lowering. Two at least. I will not lower my car until this is resolved.

The bar mentioned above is the one I plan on. Quality manufacturer. I will NEVER, NEVER, buy a sway bar with the ends welded on. Caused me to wreck a Corolla when one failed. H-Sport knows better.

 

tvrgeek.. thanks for the input, actually I'm still on the fence if I should lower or not. Yes! I'm all for performance and then looks follows but I don't want the vibration issues. I'll do my search on the vibration issues and decide from there, Is the issue on all lowering springs for the mini or just certain brand?

thanks

 

I'd like a little confirmation as well... with NM springs, besides a new alignment, does it require rear lower control arms for correct rear camber? Front camber will remain the same?

 

Don't get a rear swaybar until you have installed bilstein shocks and added front negative camber. The swaybar should be added only if you are unhappy with the handling AFTER you've played with camber and shock settings.

Don't waste your money on rubbish coilovers like vmaxx. Get bilstein shocks, and if you want to lower the car, get NM springs or TSW, depending on how low you want to go. Personally I would go with TSWs. Get some camber plates up front, and add some front neg camber, then write on the forums how ecstatic you are with the handling

 

For daily driving, air-ride is the winner hands down. Comfort, on-the-fly adjustability, aesthetics. Need I say more?

 

I was told by Mach V that lowering the rear allows getting the desired one and a half negative in the rear with only adjustment and acceptable toe. On the front, you need camber plates to get to that much. One and a half is not enough to cause tire wear issues, but is monumental in the handling.

When I was considering a Miata and commented to the dealer that it plowed like a pig, his response was: "Well, we can't have test drives with unskilled drivers spinning it into trees. Decamber it!"

From reading all the lowering experiences, it does not seem to be an issue with a vendor, quality of install, or amount of drop. No trend has emerged.

I would add a little caveat to etlaj. The increased rear bar will give more front grip and less rear grip. If this is desirable depends on your skill level. There is a very good reason that all street cars are set up with substantial understereer. It is much less dramatic to the driver to plow off a corner head first than sideways. I really don't want to sound like I am questioning anyones abilities, but unless you have has several days of professional training, I would not recommend setting a car up too close to neutral. Me, well I am an old foggie who cut his chops on Saabs and VWs so I am quite used to looking out the side window going around corners. Add playing with air pressure to the list of tuning before adding hardware. On the street, you are looking for poise and balance. You want the car to be easy to drive. On the track you want it fast. It the car is easy to drive on the track, you are not going fast enough.

I agree air ride has it's place. Bentley and Citroen used it for years with tremendous success. You don't see it on any performance car. I suspect there is a reason. It is all a matter of your goal.

 

How much actual experience do you have with it? My airride handles better than any of my previous MINI suspensions (lowering springs, lowering springs + koni yellows, and coilovers+camber plates). Far superior in comfort, appearance, and performance.

When compared to a race coilover setup on the same car with the same professional driver, an airride setup turned a faster lap time than the coilovers out on one of the big european race tracks. The same can be said of the ART mustang which beat out multiple coilover-equipped cars in the performance tests run by Forza.

Just like any coilover setup, it all depends on the quality of the strut and the setup that you use. If developed properly, airride can handle just as well as a spring setup.

 

News to me. I would gladly read further about newer setups. Have some links?
If it works that well, why is in not ubiquitous in series that allow unlimited suspension design? Is it limited in maximum rate so it is just a tad soft for real racing? Too bulky maybe? Is there something they are missing in Milano and Stuttgart?

BTY do you have a link to what you are running?

 

When I say handle better than coilovers in this topic, I mean your usual street coilovers...H&R, KW, etc. Comparing them to 3 way adjustable ohlins with remote resevoirs and stuff that you find on series racers is a bit more apples and oranges. I'm sure the added weight (tank compressor, etc) is a large turn-off when weight plays a large part in those series as well. But when proposed for a daily driver with a spirited owner, they're a great option and the few extra pounds won't be a hinderance.

Outside legit purpose-built race cars, airride is fully capable of handling as well as the other available street coilovers. If you have quality struts, the air spring acts just as a spring would and provides a large range of spring rate adjustment at the flip of a switch.

Much like cheap coilovers, it's possible that a poorly planned airride system will handle poorly. It all comes down to the quality of the parts used and the planning that has been put into the setup and geometry.

I have a build thread, though it's nearly 200 pages long at this point so it's a lot to sift through: http://www.motoringunderground.com/f...10415&page=193

A real quick synopsis:

I've built a system that allows me to be as low as I want while still handling well. The MINI's weak point is its lack of travel...especially when lowered, so I've addressed this issue and come up with a heavily lowered car that still retains the travel required for a comfortable ride. As I said earlier, it rides and performs better than the multiple suspension setups I've tried previously over the past 8 years of owning MINI's so I'm incredibly happy with it. There's still more room for work in the future. (swaybars, etc).
Fronts

Custom machined pillowball mounts to cut down on stack height, increase travel, allow for camber adjustments, and remove the squishy bushing. With the help of some friends, I had these drawn up in CAD and machined locally.

Shortened bilstein sport struts that have been re-valved to appropriately match the slammed ride height and the spring rates of the bags. UAV bags with custom machined perches.

Running a front staggered wheel fitment with a wider track up front.

Rears:

Pillowball upper mounts to deal with the binding found on slammed cars.

Again, shortened, revalved struts with airlift bags.

3 Gallon tank, 400c compressor, full digital air management computer with auto-adjust pressure system. 1/4" lines and airlift valve manifolds

 

If you're already unhappy with the ride comfort, stay away from the intriguing price point of the vmaxx's. They're great for the younger stance crowd who don't mind a stiffer ride, but for others who are uninterested in slamming their cars and worried about ride comfort, they're not the best option.

If I were you I would personally look into KW v1's. They're more comfortable, allow a good amount of drop, handle well, have a high quality finish, and are fairly reasonable when it comes to price.

I was never happy with just lowering springs on standard struts (or konis/bilsteins for that metter). You limit the travel so much that you're rebounding off the bumpstops constantly. On a car with 1.9" of travel...lowering it 1-1.5" really hurts the travel range and ride comfort...not to mention you will eventually blow the stock struts. Mine were completely toast after running them with H&R springs.

 

your not going to be able to get a lot of things for $600 unless your cheap n order off of ebay...

 

Bilstein HD's, slot the front fenders for as much camber as you can get. Under $600. Not sexy. No long list of parts for your signature block. You won't look cool. It just works. Really, you can't believe how bad the stock shocks are.

If you MUST lower, I would recommend the PSS10's or V1's. Quality parts. Safe. One problem with the PSS10's. They are fully adjustable. You will drive yourself mad trying every combination unless you have a chassis guru to help you. The risk is not being happy with them if they are set inappropriately. The V1,s are as they are. No temptation. Add in camber plates and labor, you are not talking small change. Pay to play.

As the above gentleman mentions, the car has very little travel to work with and unless you are willing to do major chassis redesign, you will not like the results.

Ask yourself: What do I think I know BMW does not? What trade-off am I willing to make they chose differently? I can tell you one. Cost of the struts. They went cheap as the car is too expensive for the market already. ( look at the cheap trim inside the 10's and you will see how big a constraint that is!). I can tell you a second. Zero camber on all four wheels. Bad for handling, "safe" for unskilled drivers. That is why all economy cars come that way. I know how to make different choices for both.

Buy cheap junk off e-bay, and you will have to buy the quality stuff later. You have to pay to play. Making an economy car handle like a sports car is not easy, or everyone would do it.

I would have done the PSS10's but I am not happy with the lack of understanding on the mystery vibration. I remain at stock ride hight. Of course, I am old enough that how it handles is what matters. I quit trying to look cool 35 years ago when I got married. Results matter.

 

How can you say that - have you driven it without runflats as well? If not, you don't know what you're missing. Lose the runflats and I'll bet a paycheck you wouldn't make that statement again.

I think your solution is on the right track - Bilstein HDs with stock (or whatever) springs is a good way to go. ANYTHING that replaces the stock shocks is an upgrade - the stock shocks are the weakest part of the entire suspension setup, followed closely by the runflats.

 

[quote=tvrgeek;3093418]
I would add a little caveat to etlaj. The increased rear bar will give more front grip and less rear grip. If this is desirable depends on your skill level. There is a very good reason that all street cars are set up with substantial understereer. It is much less dramatic to the driver to plow off a corner head first than sideways. I really don't want to sound like I am questioning anyones abilities, but unless you have has several days of professional training, I would not recommend setting a car up too close to neutral. Me, well I am an old foggie who cut his chops on Saabs and VWs so I am quite used to looking out the side window going around corners. Add playing with air pressure to the list of tuning before adding hardware. On the street, you are looking for poise and balance. You want the car to be easy to drive. On the track you want it fast. It the car is easy to drive on the track, you are not going fast enough. /quote]

Oh don't worry, I'm well aware that the rear swaybar is a mod that should be done to ALL minis. (check my sig!)

But I don't care how well anyone drives. The first upgrades that should be done are the shocks and decamber, NOT the swaybar. The swaybar should only be used after (so one can decide on diameter, ie how much he/she wants to modify the handling balance). Tire pressures should be played with, long before the swaybar arrives in the mail. The swaybar takes traction from one wheel and transfers it to another. Why not maximize grip on all four before transferring any of it?

 

Going off of the original goal of this thread, I was wondering what if I had a comfort based approach for suspension. Like what kind of suspension component (i.e. coilovers, springs, struts) would be recommended for lowering the car and at the same time providing a more comfortable or at least more comfort as compared with the stock sports suspension. Would it make sense to just change the struts instead of adding springs or coils to reduce bounce? Also, the focus would be for daily driving.

I have been lurking around in many threads and there is so much information that it seems to change from thread to thread. Some people say NM springs with koni FSDs are good, some say KW V1s, and now Bilsteins seem like another good probabily.

 

Eta, agree entirely!

Caw.
Here is thew rub: You want a real comfort ride. That means lots of travel. So, you CAN NOT just put on lowering springs. You MUST get a suspension designed to run lower and provide full range. Now I am assuming you have already bought non-runflats with softer sidewalls like Michelin's? If not, go there first. I also hope you are not running 18 inch heavy rims. You want as light as possible in the 16 size.

Have you driven a justa? How does it fair in the comfort class to you? Too soft for me.

Look to fully adjustable coilovers, like PSS10's or maybe Tien that are DESIGNED to give full travel when lowered. Look for springs at least as soft as OEM. ( I have posted these several times). The KW's V1's are not adjustable and would be stiffer than I call comfort.

That is for real comfort. If you just want it civil and not going airborne over every bump, the HD's do that all by themselves! PSS10's would be an even better step. Broken record time: Read the posts on mystery vibration!

BTW, I ordered a set of 205-55-16 Bridgstone RE960's and an H-sport rear bar today. I decided to go half way on the camber and only slot the front fenders. For now. I am more concerned with balance than ultimate grip. Everyone has their priorities.

 

I would say that the Koni FSD would provide a more comfy ride quality than the Bilsteins, but you shouldn't lower your car on FSDs. You can on Bilsteins (on the B8 sport shock that is, not the B6). I guess it depends on whether or not you want to lower your car. I wouldn't bother going with coilovers. Waste of money for your application.

If you want to lower: Bilstein B8's with TSW (~1" drop, linear rate) or NM (~1.5" drop, progressive rate) springs

If you want stock height: Koni FSD shocks or Bilstein B6 sport shocks

 

Thanks trvgeek and etalj, definitely helps. I was also wondering what would be a good setup for a mild street performance?

 

That is Bilstein HD for stock height, and SPORT for drop. There is a question if the sport shock is really available. I would have to believe the HD would work OK dropped a little, but it is not in their spec. The issue is you run out of travel so they may just say not to drop them as it is unsafe, not a lack of shock internal travel. My theory.

Had a couple of days on the RE 960's. I am surprised at how big the difference in steering response is. They are less harsh, but no change on the bouncyness (the HD's were what cured that). The grip a bit better, but I have to relearn the feel of turn-in. THE run-flats did have an advantage there. Sway bar just got delivered, but it is supposed to be over 100 this weekend, so it will have to wait I am just too old for that king of nonsense.

I too thought long and hard on the FSD's. Never met anyone who was unhappy with them. The HD's made me a believer. I am remaining stock height. If the vibration issue is ever solved, I'll do PSS10's to drop it.

 

just fyi everyone says camber plates for front because of lack of adjustment... but on the MINI and most german cars for that matter Caster is so high you don't need any real increase in static camber to achieve front grip...