After doing a fairly exhaustive search through previous posts, I have decided to buy a 19mm (instead of a 22mm) rear sway bar for my 02 MCS.

Here is my dilemma. I can get a Eibach bar for $130 shipped but it's only a two position bar with the softest adjustment at 21% stiffer than stock and the harder adjustment at 71% stiffer than stock. Or I can get an Alta bar for $170 shipped which of course has a three hole adjustment at 15%, 41%, and 78% stiffer than stock.

I like the cost of the Eibach bar and have no reservations about the quality but I'm wondering if I would be wishing that I had the extra (middle) hole on the Alta which seems like a nice compromise between too soft and maybe too hard. But is it worth the $40? Or is there another reason for choosing one over the other? If I got the Eibach I would probably be running it on the stiffest setting which is close to the stiffest on the Alta. Is anyone running their Alta on the stiffest setting and how does it handle? Is it too twitchy?

 

Think about it this way.

$40 divided by the number of years you plan to keep the MINI.

I think the Alta would be the better of the two down the road.

 

I run the Alta 19mm bar at full stiff on Summer tires (BF-Goodrich G-Force Sport) and at medium stiff on winter tires (Dunlop Wintersport M3). The first position is almost useless. If you run crappy tires I'd stick with the middle setting... if you get something sticky, go full hard. Your mileage may vary and your driving style may as well.

You have to remember that increasing the stiffness of the sway bar 15% does not lend you a 15% increase in roll stiffness, merely that the sway bar's contribution to roll stiffness is increased 15%. You'll only see a very small portion of that in terms of overall change.

 

I know you said you're getting the 19mm, but I love my RSpeed 22mm that Randy Webb called his "preferred" bar. It can be bought on ebay for $155 + $25 shipping. I've run it on the middle setting for over 2 years and don't find it twitchy at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'd have to be driving like an idiot to loose control of the rear end.

 

(kreek) (rattle rattle) DON'T (RATTLE) (KREEK) GET THE (RATTLE RATTLE RATTLE) THE IRELAND BAR! (RATTLE RATTLE RATTLE) IT'S REALLY NOISY! SORRY HAVE TO YELL (RATTLE RATTLE) OVER THE NOISE! (RATTLE RATTLE RATTLE)
It's actaully a good bar, just noisy. Hollow 22mm about as stiff as a solid 19mm. Got mine for free, so really I'm not complaining. IF I do choose to get a different bar it would be the Alta 19mm (shops here in town sort of) so no shipping.

 

R-speed!

 

I have an H-Sport 19mm that I really like. It costs more than the Alta.

I'm going to agree with AX Cooper. Go with the Alta, it really isn't much more money & the extra adjustment is a nice thing to have.

 

I dare to say that most people do very little adjusting unless they do a lot of track time, in which case they probably have coilovers so the rear bar isn't as much of a factor for dialing in the suspension. Many of us just set it at a setting we like and forget about. So although the adjustability is a selling feature, after the initial set up it may not be much of a factor. Find out what bar and what setting most people use and go with it.

 

You are correct Jay. Folks find what they like & just stick with it. The only time I change mine is when winter arrives or I have to go on a wet track.

 

My take is similar, although the range of adjustability is more important than the number of settings or frequency of adjustment. My concern with the Eibach bar is that you have setting low (useless) and high (pretty good). The Alta bar you get low (useless) medium (pretty good) and high (pretty good). You get to choose between two settings for whatever your driving style prefers whereas the Eibach is either high or nothin. Even if you never adjust the bar again, you will be able to tune the RSB to your needs better with the 3-position Alta.

FWIW, even driving poorly (braking under .80g+ loads because the verdammten other cars don't take onramps fast enough) the Mini feels planted. DSC comes on but the car doesn't feel out of control... and this is at full stiff on the sway bar on dry roads. On consistently slippery/wet roads it can get a little hairy, hence the dial-back to medium stiff for safety's sake.

 

Webb Motorsports XRSB...Love it!

 

Nice piece, but probably overkill for the intended application and budget.

 

Probably

 

I've made several posts in threads about rear bars and my reasoning for enjoying my H-Sport 19mm bar. Honestly the Alta and the Eibach don't allow the same level of adjustment of the H-Sport.

+54% , +88% , +128% I consider my H-Sport NON-Adjustable because I set it at stiffest and leave it there. At 128% it isn't that bad, the car rotates much more nicely and anything less just wouldn't be worth it IMO. If you HAVE to go between Eibach and Alta, I'd go Eibach in your case.

The low adjustments of 15% or 21% of Alta and Eibach are worthless...probably something that you would barely notice. At 41% for the middle setting of the Alta it is almost at the lowest setting of the H-sport...which would be very mild. And at 71% or 78% this is probably the level you will really start to feel the difference. Since both are so close, I would just go for the cheaper one and leave it at the stiffest setting, as neither really is that stiff.

Again I drive mine at 128% all day, everyday, AutoX or Road Course, rain or shine. I really see no need to go lower. Now here is some FYI. IF you intend to do camber plates, then you may want to use that adjustment. As I have camber plates (though have not got to use -2* of front camber) I MAY be turning my bar down to the middle setting for higher speed racing.

 

I think the wrong numbers are being compared between the 19mm H-Sport and Alta.
H-Sport is 54, 88, and 128%
Alta is 115, 140, and 177%
I emailed RSpeed to find out there rates but got no response.

Thus the Alta is much stiffer than the H-Sport.

It seems that many people using the 19mm H-Sport use the highest setting. If that is the case wouldn't make more sense to get the Alta since you can go lighter (wet driving) or heavier (auto-x) than the stiffest H-Sport setting.

My concern is that the softest Alta (115%) might be a little too stiff when using front camber plates set at near -2 degrees. What are people's opinions of using the Alta verse H-Sport when running about -2 deg camber in front?
.

 

Ah...that sounds way better. I never really looked into the Alta so I didn't know its specs. But when I read 15/40/77 in this thread, I thought, yes that is worthless. Adding 100 to those numbers makes it much better! Better enough that I may consider swapping my H-Sport for an Alta. If I do the switch I'll wait until after I have -2 camber up front so that we can have a comparison. But yea as for 128%, its really not bad at all.

 

The Alta numbers are misleading (probably to sell more sway bars). They inflated by 100% in comparison to the stock bar ie: first setting is 115% of the stock bar (where the stock bar is 100). Comparing the effective rate of the bar to stock at each of the settings (available on Alta's site) shows that first setting is a 15% increase over the stock bar OR 115% as strong as the stock bar. It's all about marketing.

I wonder if the same is true for the H-sport - are the two lower settings less stiff than the stock bar? I doubt it but it is possible.

 

What does this mean in regard to effective stiffness? Isn't 115% a good thing if it firms up the rear a bit? What is the 'first' setting? Is that the most stiff or the least stiff?

 

Yes, it is good. However, it is misleading because the improvement is not 115%, but 15%.

If stock sway bar is X, then the Alta at setting 1 is 1.15X, not X + 1.15X (which is what Alta is claiming). Look at their claimed numbers for roll stiffness increase and you will see that the magnitude of increase is not as massive as their percentage claims.

 

ahh, ok so I did well with the H-sport then...

 

After sitting back reading, learning and being entertained (I do find NAM entertaining), I decided on the Alta 19mm. I figure that I'll start off with the middle hole and see how it goes. I like to tinker and am comfortable with tools so I don't see me installing it and leaving it alone unless the initial setting is just what I'm looking for and if that's the case then I bought the right bar 'cause the Eibach doesn't have a middle hole. Sometimes I amaze myself - if I could just amaze my wife I'd have it made.

Thanks for all the input!!!

 

19mm on full stiff is still way safe. heck, I can't get the back end loose on 22mm mid hole and coilovers...good tires helps

 

This thread got me thinking about the sway bar ratings and comparisons between companies. I did some investigating/comparing and came up with the following thoughts/observations:

- Alta's published numbers are increases over a 17mm bar (R53 Sport/JCW) not the R53 stock 16mm bar. Thus Alta's numbers are not comparable to Hotchkis numbers (which I believe reference to a 16mm bar).
- Alta's published numbers are 100% higher than I would state. I think of a 100% increase to be twice as stiff as the reference bar but Alta would consider it 200% (which makes sense from a multiplication sense).
- I would think of Alta's numbers as:
19mm solid bar: 15%, 40%, 77% not their 115%, 140%, 177%.
22mm solid bar: 113%, 160%, 229% not their 213%, 260%, 329%.
- If Alta's rates were combared to a 16mm bar they would be about:
19mm solid bar: 21%, 57%, 110% (estimated to compare to Hotchkis).
22mm solid bar: 164%, 232%, 333% (estimated to cmopare to Hotchkis).
- MiniMadness published numbers are calculated the same as Alta's which I think are 100% over stated.
- I believe that the MiniMadness numbers are referenced to stock 16mm.
- MinMadness numbers are:
22mm solid bar: 128%, 197%, 284% not thier 228%, 297%, 384%.
- The Alta and MiniMadness 22mm bars appear to be the same.
- I called H&R and they do not provide numbers for their bars.
- H&R 19mm bar is solid with two adjustment holes.
- Hotchkis published numbers are referenced to the stock 16mm bar (not the R53 sport/JCW 17mm bar).
- Hotchkis website states the 19mm bar as tubular but based on the published numbers, I believe it must be a solid bar.
- Hotchkis numbers are:
19mm solid bar: 54%, 88%, 128% (at least I think this bar is solid).
25.5mm hollow bar: 226%, 294%, 383%.
25.4mm solid bar: 314%, 394%, 501% (1" solid bar).
- The Whiteline and MiniMania 20mm solid bars appear to be the same.
- I could not find data on the Whiteline or MiniMania 20mm bar.
- I could not obtain any data on the Rspeed 22mm solid bar.
- A 22 hollow bar, with normal 2.75mm wall thinkness, is equivalent to a 20mm solid bar.
- A 25.5 hollow bar, with normal 3.1875mm wall thinkness, is equivalent to a 23mm solid bar (actually a little stiffer than a 23mm bar).

 

My opinion, get the the H-Sport Competition 25.5mm hollow rear sway bar

If you're going to get the H-Sport Sport 19mm rear sway bar and set it to full stiff, might as well get the Comp Bar and set it to the softest setting.

Similar to what PGT said, I right now have my H-Sport Comp Bar at Full Stiff and I haven't experienced any UN-controllable oversteer. First off, it takes alot to do get it at that state (ie: if you're at an autox, but are normal road conditions ever like the autox)!!!

Cheers!
Jay

 

There is a huge different between the stiffest Hotchkis 19mm setting (128%) and the softest Hotchkis 25.5 hollow setting (226%).
If you are ever going to use front camber plates to add negative camber you will want to be careful on the amount of stiffness in the rear bar because you can get into overstreer problems because the front will stick so much better. I know from experience that I will not again use the 25.5 hollow bar (even set on softest) with -2.0 front camber because it is too easy to oversteer on the street (sometime you can not control the situation you get into because of other drivers, such as having to hit the brakes or lift throttle in a turn).