Ok, this would seem simple enough but for whatever reason it's not.

Bought and installed H&R Trax (green) springs and installed them. Also installed 18" x 7.5" rims on 215/35 Toyo Proxes 4 tires. Then had the car aligned.

Drove the car 7,000 miles over the ensuing year and a half. Some commuting, some play, some sprited club runs. Not much mileage i nteh timeframe, really. No issues.

In March, we drove 2,500 miles round trip (From Portland) to Vegas for AMVIV, so there were long sustained rates of higher speed in rural areas (85mph). Subsequently, we baked the rear inner area of the tires. They were feathered.... badly. Sounded like truck tires when we returned to Portland.

Apparently, there was too much rear toe AND rear camber. I stupidly assumed that my alignment was still Ok, as the car did not pull or have odd wear patterns on the tires prior. The existing camber was aggressive but in range of spec (-2.37).

So, I told myself "ya goofed up, and shoulda checked the alignment before leaving." To remedy the situation, I bought 4 new tires (Pirelli PZeros), had them mounted up, and took it to the alignment shop to be re-aligned.

When I get the car back, I've got more negative camber (increased from -2.5 to -3.2) and nominally decreased toe in (.2) The rear tires inner contact patch gets quite hot to the touch, just driving around town. I'm worried i'm gonna roast these too

My question is this:

Where are the areas of OEM adjustability on the '06 rear suspensions? The shop tells me that they think they've adjusted the rear suspension as far as it will go to dial out camber, without increasing toe in.

Also assume aftermarket control arms are not a solution (despite the fact that I'll be buying them. I wanna see if there's an answer to the adjusability question. I'm told by some folks, that it can be brought back to spec. But the shop say's it's as far as it can go.

Assume I know little about suspensions, in your answers. (I know just enough to be dangerous , but not enough to warrant being talked to in a manner other than a novice.)

 

stock rear lower control arms don't have very much adjustment range. something like half a degree of movement. aftermarket control arms ARE your solution

 

+1
All the adjustment that I was able to get out of my rears was .5 degrees of camber. I ended up with -1.5 degrees camber on the rear which I'm happy with. My car is not lowered. You are going to need a set of adjustable rear arms to have any hope of getting your alignment close to correct.

 

totally, you need rear adj controll arms WHENEVER you lower a mini. (now that i said that i know i will get a lot of resposes telling me i am full of bull but whatever.) i am not alone in this, if you read most manufacture data that make lower springs, they all say you should put new arms in order to have it aligned correctly

 

If you lift your mini, take the wheel off and play with this piece, it will make perfect sense. I didn't explain it as well as maybe someone else can. I think that is the only adjustable part on the stock setup though.

Good luck!

 

Thanks to all of you who have responded so far, and especially for the pic.

A follow up question?

I have another MINI (2004 MCS), with the same setup, (H&R Springs and 18 inch wheels) plus an aftermarket rear sway bar.

Yet I don't have this rear camber problem, with that car. There's no excessive camber. It's in the 2 degree range.

How is that possible on that car, without adjustable rear control arms when it is not, on the other car?

 

There are variances across models ranges as far as suspension geometry goes. It's the same reason why some folks see differences in camber across axle from the factory.
I put TSW springs on and got -2.3 degrees L/R in the rear of my '06... and that was with them adjusted in as far as they'd go. I just put H-Sport control arms on so that should sort things out once I get it re-aligned.
Toe, in my experience, will kill tires much quicker than camber. IIRC the 06 has some decent adjustment there.

HTH

 

Interesting that you mention toe.

I'm told by others than this shop, that you can adjust toe at the front of the trailing arm, and the shop is saying that if they change the camber back to more positive, they will increase toe-in too much.

Is the toe adjustment range so minimal that the two are closely linked in adjustment ramifications?

(And yes, I'm finally installing ajustable control arms, but I still would love to know the answer...)

 

Rear toe adjustment is huge.
The 3 bolts that hold the trailing arm are slotted. Hard to get it right as they move a little as they are tightened.
Camber is adjusted first as it affects toe.

 

toe AND camber must be adjusted as a back and forth relationship. toe cannot be adjusted via the lower control arms if these are adjustable or the camber toe curve will change depite what appears to be a proper alignment.

Stock rear toe and 1.5 deg neg camber is a good over-all to work with.

too much toe in either direction will literally drag tires along the road...I imaging this is the real problem...

 

I watched my alignment guy do toe on my car. Provided he did it correctly, toe is a real ***** to adjust. As you tighten down the 3 bolts, it changes the toe reading. If you change the order in which you tighten down the 3 bolts, it changes the toe reading. That alone took the longest amount of time.

 

Thanks meb.

Yes, there was too much toe before and now the toe spec is in stock range.

To get it, however, camber was changed from -2.36 to -3.27. Seemed excessive within the adjustability range w/2006 spec OEM adjustment mechanisms. I was hoping the non-mini shop I went to, was just overlooking a toe (or camber) adjustment mechanism.

The inner area of the tire still gets durned hot.

 

Exactly how to tell they adjusted tow via the control arms; toe is in spec and camber is way our of wack! Folks do this because adjusting toe via the trailing arms is a huge PITA!!

I while back I hired Don's crew from DHM to align my car, when eveything was adjustable. I felt like god when they were done...they knew the car. I don't think Don is playing with Minis any longer. These guys definately know suspension relationships - camber and toe curves. Ask you tech about the camber and toe curves...

So at 3.27 deg neg static, the wheel may be close to 4 deg neg thru a corner. You are then cornering on the inside edge of the tire...camber thrust becomes huge along with a host of other problems. This happened to me twice. Stock toe, 1.5 deg neg camber! Go hammer those guys!

 

i've adjusted my camber and toe quite easily using JUST 4 adjustable control arms.

NO WAY would i even try it moving the trailing arm. if you leave that point fixed, then at least you know that if you have the control arms at mirror image lengths, you haven't messed up the rear thrust line.

 

Except, the camber / toe relationship is altered. Toe should be aiding max camber as a stability mechanism during max corner loads. This is a dynamic adjustment, not static per se.

Using a piece of plywood or some other material you can draw on, set this up vertical and perpendicular to the in front of the rear wheel - perferraby, the tire and spring is removed. You can then scribe the arc of the wheel and measure the toe and camber curve by placing a drawing instrument of some sort on the 9:00 position and at the 3:00 position. A ruber bushing will deflect a little and may yield slightly different results if you do not run this test exactly the same each time. do this on level ground. You should be prepared to try this with different settings to get an idea for what changes what. This is a very valuable exercise.

 

If I get aftermarket adjustable lower control arms (to have more camber adjustment with a lowered car) can I move the stock adjustable lower control arms to the top to obtain toe adjustment? That is, are the lower arms and adjustment bolts moveable to the top? Maybe only lower bolts need to be moved the to top bolt locations?

 

In theory, you can adjust camber via either the upper or lower control arms. In reality, both should be used; the goal is to keep both upper and lower arms as close to equal in length as possible - like stock...unless you have other goals in mind... Toe should be adjusted via the front of the trailing arm - three bolts per trailing arm

 

Since we're talking about rear toe and the trailing arm...

How likely are those bolts to be rusted solid in a salt-belt car? The rest of the hardware under my car has been rusted, so I'm assuming these will be too.

 

Jasen,

My car has 130K miles on it. The heads of the bolts are a little rusted. The rest of the bolts are fine. I use silver anti-sieze on most of my threads as it will resist corrosion better than copper - according to the manufacturers. Copper is better in areas that require a little more heat resistance - brake bolts for example.

I also used this anti-sieze between the trailing arm bushing and the unibody.
Moving the trailing arm bush is now much easier and help aid alignments...it's easier to tap slightly and get a slight movement rather than waking the bushing to get it to move.

 

Meb,
Now I am confused.
I thought the whole idea of adjustable upper control arms was to adjust the toe with the lower control arms being used to adjust the camber. That way the toe did not have to be adjusted with the trailing arm bolts. But you state that the upper control arms should just be used to adjust camber along with the lower control arms. I know you are much more knowledgeable in this area than I so guess I just misunstood the the use of adjustable upper control arms.

This creates a problem for me because the one time I took my MCS in for an alignment the shop (local brake & alignment shop) they would not touch the trailing arm bolts to adjust the rear toe. They would only adjust the rear camber using my installed adj. lower control arms.

 

Think about how the car was designed...the control arms are not adjustable and toe is only adjustable via the trailing arm. That way, camber compensation and toe can be adjusted in realtionship to one another rather than one affecting the other; if the lower control arm is used to adjust toe, then camber may be compromised.

EDIT - camber may be compromised...this is a dynamic measurment - you have to follow the camber curve. If you get a toe value you like and a camber value you like by adjusting just the lower control arm, the camber curve will more than likely be hurt. you may end up with less or more than you neeed. Also, when you lower the car, the instant centers move and these are the arcs about which camber compensation is defined. This is called the virtual swing arm.

 

With some help from a friend with a lift and some experience string-boxing alignments, the toe on my car is happy again.

The three bolts for the trailing arm adjustment were not rusted at all. A miracle on my car.