I've searched the forums about control arms and installation but couldn't really find an answer.

Okay so quite awhile ago i put on m7 springs and a rear sway bar. I never got around to doing an alignment or fixing the camber in the rear. Since putting on the springs and swaybar, the cars handling noticeably improved but it was also noticeably bumpier (ride).

Anyways, my question is can I get an alignment and then do the rear control arms or do i need to do the control arms first to fix the camber? Does rear camber create a harsher ride because the m7 springs are much harsher and i was under the impression they were suppose to be the best (in terms of least jarring ride). Also can someone give me a quick break down of a control arm install or tell me the difficulty of it in regards to a spring installation?

And lastly, can you install the control arms using ramps or do i have to get the wheel off the ground? The reason why I ask is because I don't have jack stands but i could go borrow some from a friend.

If i am looking for mainly comfort / low noise, if i skip the control arms, will an alignment help ride quality?

Sorry if this was hard to read, but it's late and i'm off to bed now..TIA!

 

If you are going to get control arms, install them first before the alignment. If you don't you'll end up paying for 2 alignments. I think your ride issues are due to the springs & not due to the extra camber you now have in the rear of your car. As far as installaion goes. If you can do springs I'm guessing you are handy enough to do the arms. If I get a bit of time I'll check my Bentley manual. Stay tuned.

 

In theory, if the tires wear evenly and the car does not pull or handle unevenly (left turns feel different than right turns), an alignment isn't necessary. Personally, I like to err on the side of caution and would get an alignment. Regardless, an alignment will have little affect on ride quality. You'll need different springs and/or shocks to improve that.

I recently installed a set of adjustable arms (H-Sport) on a friend's lowered S (H-Sport springs) to reduce the amount of negative camber. We took a "guess" at the length and brought the camber close enough to stock (we had stock car next to it for comparison) that he decided to skip the alignment (although I still recommend it...).

Replacing the arms is not very difficult, but you will need to get the rear wheels off the ground.

 

I'm with IanF on this. Get an alignment when doe. Eyeballing is good enough to get you to the alignment shop, but using that setup long term will most likely cost you a couple of tires.

The service manual says to place the car on jackstands. The job doesn't appear to difficult. Many folks have DIYed them.

 

the hotchkis site has a good how to on how to install the rear control arms. you need a 1 inch or 1.5 socket extension and a 17mm or 18mm (I don't remember which) box end or open end wrench.

Other tools apply like breaking bar etc. But you can do it with a basic socket set and a basic open end set.

As far as ride quality it depends on which control arms you are looking at. If you get some with heim joints it is going to firm the back end up quite a bit, however make the ride more harsh. I'd look at hsport control arms if this is a concern to you.

Increasing camber will harshen the ride a touch. Due to angular forces and whatnot... however if you get control arms with bushings instead of heim joints... it will be hardly be a change over stock...

My suggestion is to drop the cash on lcr's and an alignment... it helps the car greatly. Front camber plates are a big help as well, they will make as much of a difference in cornering ability as your rear bar did.

 

Changing the lower control arms should take about 30 minutes - for both. I've done this quite a few time already - for uppers and lowers.

18mm box wrench, 18mm socket, and torque wrench. Torque both ends to 74ftlbs. Done.

You can place both bolts thru the stock controls arms and turn it so the threaded portions stick up - lay the stock control arm on the ground with the threaded portion of the bolts pointing up. Then, lay the adjustables arm over the stock arms so that the bolts fit freely into the holes on the new arms - you'll have to adjust these to do this. This will replicate stock length. Then, back off a couple, three turns - make sure you back off the same on each side. You'll have a relatively close aproximation for stock camber when done.

Make sure both bushings are in line, not scewed. I usually save the final tightening on the arms for after the bolts have been torqued. This helps to keep the bushings parallel.

If you are removing upper arms, you should try to load the suspension so that these arms are in the right place...or the bushings will bind a bit. Actually, final torquing should be done with the weight of the car on the axle...like on an alignment rack or ramps. This will allow the arms to be at the corretc height/postion before torquing. Bushings can be torn if this procedure is not followed.

 

Very nice how-to meb. That's the kind of info that's missing in the shop manual.

Thanks

 

Are you running runflats? It does not mention any tire changes on your sig.

By lowering your car, thus increasing negative camber. That means your riding on the inner walls of your tires. If you have runflats, that's going to be harsh/hard.

Buy the control arms, intstall and have the car aligned. It will correct your camber to orig or close to factory setting and save your tire life.

 

OK, you want comfort and low noise. If you don't have adjustable lower control arms then you cannot easily adjust rear camber.

Normally you do all the suspension upgrades- shocks, springs, camber plates or lower control arms then do alignment.

If one adds coilovers you adjust ride height, corner balance then do alignment.

Alignment is always last.

Now the question is how much to set alignment-

Front camber- normal is -0.5 degrees
If you have adjustable camber plates then dial in -2.0 to -3.0 degrees for the fronts. More negative is for track and competition autocross.

Front toe- normal is toe in and for best tire wear that's probably good.
Zero toe is also OK, it's more toe out than stock setting but good for turn in response and not harsh on tire wear like toe out can be. 1/16" toe out can be used for autocross or track and does wear the tires a little but not too bad at all. Ride quality is still fine with any of these settings as long as right and left are the same or nearly so.

Rear camber- normal is -1.0 to about -1.6 degrees. Using rear lower control arms that are adjustable you can set it to anything you want including -0.7 to -1.0 degrees which rides pretty good- I've tried it. You can set this to factory spec range a little closer to -1.0 is good, this helps with tire wear and good for straight line driving as you use more of the whole tire tread not being bias to the inner tire edges.
Rear toe- usually toe in but can be zero toe. Set to factory specs is fine. Don't use toe out, bad on tire wear.

Setting alignment to factory specs helps to smooth out ride harshness as much as can be done. Upgrades to suspension are usually stiffer and ride quality does get affected. If you do add lowering springs keep in mind that stock shocks are easily worn out over time, upgrading to Koni Yellow shocks or Koni FSD shocks are possible upgrades.

Adding any rear or front swaybar or adding a lower rear control arm but keeping the length of the control arm the same as stock does not affect alignment. Changing ride height does change alignment as both camber and toe can be affected. Worst case is when right and left alignment is far off.

 

What is the maximum front negative camber you can get on stock shocks with lowering springs without camber plates? How does an allignment shop even adjust it w/o camber plates?

 

They cannot adjust camber without plates.

Interesting question...I'm not sure how much static camber changes with a lowered car - obviously the ride height determines the amount of change. But, I would expect the camber curve to change more radically. This is an assumption, I've never bothered to check this. A Mac strut runs out of neg camber as the suspension compresses, so adding more neg camber and or lowering the car help to reduce the loss of neg camber.

 

For 2002 to 2006 MINIs all types there is no front camber adjustment possible. So no matter what suspension upgrades you add to the front you usually get the same front camber of about -0.5 degrees. If something is knocked out of alignment or bent then you might get a slightly different reading.

For 2007 R56 MINIs you have a very small adjustment screw at the front tower plates that allow for a little adjustment of camber in the front.

Changing lowering springs in the rear will increase negative camber in the rear and sometimes more than you want and out of factory spec range. You also change toe settings front and rear with any lowering.

 

minihune,

Have you ever tried to plot camber changes with ride height? I never seem to get beyond the, " that sounds like an interesting project" level

 

How do i go about replacing the upper/lower links. I bought them at the dealership and need to replace originals due to a hitting a HUGE pot hole.

 

Read post number 6 above....