>>So today, Friday, I went there at 9am. There was 2 engeneers with cool accents (one German, one Polish) that were extremely cool. We took a drive around the parking lot, and....... NO STUMBLE!!! Is it the biggest Murphey's law or what?
>>
>>Then they asked me to drive their MCS to see if it felt any different, and it didn't. except for smoother tranny. (I mean the shifting of the gears itself, not driving)
>>
>>Anyway.. They took my car to their "research center" for the day, to try some new software versions, and thanked me for letting them use my car as a Guinnea Pig.
>>
>>They also mentioned that they are going to AZ soon, because it seems that most of complaints are coming from that neck of the woods, (heat, elevation?) so i am positive fixes are comig soon.
>>


Oh...wait...I'm sorry. I thought that this was the "Stumble" thread. I didn't realize that it had been altered to become the "MINIacs Obsessed With X-Files" thread.

Attention, Moderators! Perhaps this thread should now be bumped to the Off Topic Forum?

 

I'm anxiously awaiting word from Graham concerning the fix on his car. Marc at John Roberts said he would get my car in pretty quick if everything checks out well on Graham's car.

Keeping my fingers crossed in downtown Dallas

Karl

 

My Dealer is Prestige MINI, the Service Manager is named Chris.

http://www.prestigemini.com

Oh, BTW, I completely forgot, they also said that im may strangely be somehow connected to how full your tank is. I thought maybe weight, but they said it has somehthing to do with sensors technical mumble-jumble.

So, next time you fill up your tank to the brim, see if it stumbles any less.

Motor On! (Oh, and be nice to Chris, he's cool)

 

now we are really talking X files.

 

Well, I got my car back. Much smoother! My problem now is that I have an extremely grooved clutch action that was learned through all those starts with the stumble. I have to tell myself to just go ahead and let it up and not slip it half way up like I have been doing.

The complete testing will come after a couple of days of driving when the ECU has gone though some drive cycles. Looks promising though. I just did a couple of competition-style launches and was able to get the tires chirping off the line right about the point where the stumble used to be. That seems proof that something has changed.

Right now I'm very happy with the results. I'm off on vacation tomorrow and so won't get in many miles by then and the car will sit in the garage for a week.

I'll keep you guys posted.

 

Uhhh. Graham? I hate to tell you this, but you aren't allowed to go on vacation now. You're going to need to postpone your trip until you can give us at least a half dozen more posts about your newly ECU'd car. OK?

Thanks. We appreciate your understanding.

 

>>Uhhh. Graham? I hate to tell you this, but you aren't allowed to go on vacation now. You're going to need to postpone your trip until you can give us at least a half dozen more posts about your newly ECU'd car. OK?
>>
>>Thanks. We appreciate your understanding.
>>
>>

OK OK, I'm trying to get some miles on it right now. I'll post later. You guys are more obsessed than I am!

 

This is high drama, dude!...we're on the edges of our collective seats! Seriously, Graham, have a wonderful, restful vacation!!!

_________________
'03 IB/W Cooper

 

>>This is high drama, dude!...we're on the edges of our collective seats! Seriously, Graham, have a wonderful, restful vacation!!!
>>
>>_________________
>>'03 IB/W Cooper

Well I've got 80 miles on the car now driving around doing errands before vacation (see I managed to work that in again!). Driving around this evening for more miles.

Graham

 

>>Just now played my phone messages and my car is ready for Saturday pickup! Whooohooo! Going on vacation on Sunday but will try to give you my impressions.
>>
>>Graham

Graham,
Have a super vacation, hope they fixed the beast. I will be in Dallas the 4th, so will missseein yo, but will drop car off at dealer and see iwhat they can do. Need oil change anyway.
Jan :

 

>>>>Just now played my phone messages and my car is ready for Saturday pickup! Whooohooo! Going on vacation on Sunday but will try to give you my impressions.
>>>>
>>>>Graham
>>
>>Graham,
>>Have a super vacation, hope they fixed the beast. I will be in Dallas the 4th, so will missseein yo, but will drop car off at dealer and see iwhat they can do. Need oil change anyway.
>>Jan :

Jan, I'll be in town on the 4th, let me know and you can try my car. Just give me a time/place.

Graham

 

Well I'm at 125 miles now since the ECU fix. Still smoother than before but now there's still a mild hesitation that I can feel. Still not enough time with it though.

 

I had my ECU flashed a while back from a stumbling 32.1 to a stumbling 33.0(?). On the way home from the dealership I was smoking the tires left and right, accidentally!
The car was still stumbling all the same but when I gunned it, it responded like never before. Most impressive (and promising) was the fact that the very German traction control system was suddenly A-OK with all the tread shearing off of my tires.

After a few fantastic days of pure bliss, the engine gradually lost power and much worse, that F#$%NG traction control system reverted right back to "OMFG! I think maybe a wheel might chirp! I better turn the engine off for a while just in case" mode.

_________________

2004 MCS-CR/W-Sport Pkg-Cold Pkg-17" R99's-bonnet stripes-PIAA

 

Another update, 100 miles later and a visit to the BMW Eastern Devision Research.

So, my "stumble" camme back, not as bad as it used to, but it's there. But I am not blaming MINI or BMW for it!

I met with engeneers today again, at their work place (more about it below) and they took my MCS for a drive, came back and said that, "yes, it's there" but they can't fix it for several reasons:

1. DMI is self adjusting and adapting, and to fix this problem they would have to change the adaptation logorythms.

2. They can't change software code, only versions because the softwre is owned by (I am not sure of the name I'll just call it something close) "Ximex" who in turn subcontracts Recarro to develop it. Neither of these companies want to lose full control of the software, so they won't let BMW group play with it.

3. It may have somehting to do with the "anti-jerk" feature designed specifically for front weel cars, that adjusts the throttle to avoid the yank of the weel. It kicks in just when you accelerate. What apparenlty happened is that Recarro only tested the software in England and Germany and figured that if it's good enough fo London and Munich, it's good for the rest of the world. WRONG!!! The heat factor plays a big role in when that "anti-jerk" kicks in and how much.

4. This is why the two engeneers are going to Arizona next week. They will collect all the data they can and then relay it to Recarro who in turn is supposed to make changes to software.


This is a lot of info to absorb in half an hour, so I MAY be wrong about exact details (i.e. company names)

Now about the "facilities". One engeneer said that if i'd like he could give me a full tour of the place. HOLLY COW!!! They have cars there that we will never see because they are only Euro versions. I saw RollsRoyses and sat in/touched them that are absolute works of art, with 380 hP, all aluminum bodies and more gadgets than "Q" could stick in it.

I saw and sat in the new 5 and 7 series. What cars! Simply perfect. Some where even taped up, like they do in "spy" photos. They have a 740d, that is 35mpg, 250 HP and 550 Lb of tourque! (Will never be available in the states), Dual DMI, 3 fule pumps with 100psi!!! of fule pressure - direct injection.

Anyway, I was very impressed and surprized by the hospitality. Wonderful people making wonderful products. MINI is just one of them, and I am positive that all of the problems will be fixed soon, because they are aware of them and are working hard to get the fixes out to us.


I feel special... of so special... LOL. Anyway, I just came back from there so my brain is a little overwhelemed. Forgive the wordiness!

Motor On!

 

>>>>"So, my "stumble" camme back, not as bad as it used to, but it's there. But I am not blaming MINI or BMW for it!"

So who are you blaming?
All that 'neat' stuff and the
engineers can't 'fix' your
stumble???

 

>>Another update, 100 miles later and a visit to the BMW Eastern Devision Research.
>>
>>So, my "stumble" camme back, not as bad as it used to, but it's there. But I am not blaming MINI or BMW for it!
>>
>>I met with engeneers today again, at their work place (more about it below) and they took my MCS for a drive, came back and said that, "yes, it's there" but they can't fix it for several reasons:
>>
>>1. DMI is self adjusting and adapting, and to fix this problem they would have to change the adaptation logorythms.
>>
>>2. They can't change software code, only versions because the softwre is owned by (I am not sure of the name I'll just call it something close) "Ximex" who in turn subcontracts Recarro to develop it. Neither of these companies want to lose full control of the software, so they won't let BMW group play with it.
>>
>>3. It may have somehting to do with the "anti-jerk" feature designed specifically for front weel cars, that adjusts the throttle to avoid the yank of the weel. It kicks in just when you accelerate. What apparenlty happened is that Recarro only tested the software in England and Germany and figured that if it's good enough fo London and Munich, it's good for the rest of the world. WRONG!!! The heat factor plays a big role in when that "anti-jerk" kicks in and how much.
>>
>>4. This is why the two engeneers are going to Arizona next week. They will collect all the data they can and then relay it to Recarro who in turn is supposed to make changes to software.
>>
>>
>>This is a lot of info to absorb in half an hour, so I MAY be wrong about exact details (i.e. company names)
>>
>>Now about the "facilities". One engeneer said that if i'd like he could give me a full tour of the place. HOLLY COW!!! They have cars there that we will never see because they are only Euro versions. I saw RollsRoyses and sat in/touched them that are absolute works of art, with 380 hP, all aluminum bodies and more gadgets than "Q" could stick in it.
>>
>>I saw and sat in the new 5 and 7 series. What cars! Simply perfect. Some where even taped up, like they do in "spy" photos. They have a 740d, that is 35mpg, 250 HP and 550 Lb of tourque! (Will never be available in the states), Dual DMI, 3 fule pumps with 100psi!!! of fule pressure - direct injection.
>>
>>Anyway, I was very impressed and surprized by the hospitality. Wonderful people making wonderful products. MINI is just one of them, and I am positive that all of the problems will be fixed soon, because they are aware of them and are working hard to get the fixes out to us.
>>
>>
>>I feel special... of so special... LOL. Anyway, I just came back from there so my brain is a little overwhelemed. Forgive the wordiness!
>>
>>Motor On!
>>
>>
>>
>>
The company they were referring to is "Siemens" of Germany. No wonder this nonsense of the software updates is a subject that simply doesn't go away...two rival companies don't want to relinquish control of the software code and we the owners are stuck in the middle of their silly battle!

Fix these problems ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!!

Great post and a ton of valuable information. Do you mind If I re-post your post over at MINI2.com?

 

Not sure of the specifics, but most ECU's these days auto-adjust to
certain pre-programmed hardware defaults- in order to maintain
emissions compliance.

The MCS is LEV, or is it ULEV (a very crazy weekend was had-
some cranial sensors failing )?

What I am concerned about is how much they are testing these
fixes? Perhaps Mini is limited to within certain paramaters
for changes (in order to meet emissions). The other thing
that is also bugging me is the potential of octane differences.
Since Europe has higher octanes, are the fixes calibrated for the
usual U.S. 90~94ish octanes?

Nutty idea, I did this on an old car I had 86 POS Pontiac Grand
Am, but... (see point above
about weekend ). If the ECU is reset (does cutting power to it
work?) after the stumble comes back everytime solve the problem?
or does the ECU memory work irrespective of power-cuts? I assume
the software is a firmware flash for the car... Were this the case, tho
resetting eveything every 50-100mi is completely absurd...

my $.02,

-Matt

 

Sure, repost ahead... (You could even fix some spelling errors I made. Was too excited)

 

Wow phobol! Great info...and boy would I love to get that tour. Remind us again, how exactly did these tech center engineers end up finding/choosing you in particular for this honor? Do you live in NJ? Sorry, no disrespect intended, but this has got to be up there with winning the tri-state lottery as far as an info opportunity....

So, Siemens and the self-adapation functions. That starts to make sense, but unfortunately it doesn't inspire the same degree of optimism in me that it does in you. If this problem is really that deeply rooted in the how the software WORKS (not just what it does, but how it's basically designed) and if the job is contracted out to a rival organization (probably something similar to how they ended up with an engine being built by DAIMLERCHRYSLER...an arch rival), then I'm not so sure that we'll ever see a complete fix.

I'd hope that at least they can figure out how to retrograde those owners who ask to the older-stumble-free versions of the DME software. That may be a compromise.

Also, you raise an interesting point about the "anti-jerk" (I think you mean anti-torque-steer) function. I wonder if anyone with an LSD has the stumble...

(I do love the idea of my car having an "anti-jerk" function. )

 

This stumble problem, along with the windshield and steering rack issues has me questioning my upcoming purchase of a Cooper S.

One of the cars I'm considering instead is a Honda Civic Si. Came across this in a Honda BBS:

Anyone have a slight stumble when they casually accelerate from 1st into 2nd gear? Upon the 1-2 shift, when you get on the gas after going into 2nd, the car slightly stumbles and then proceeds to accelerate again.

As per Sports Car Magazine, the Si lacks in fast upshifting because it has a drive-by-wire system in the shift linkage. This help your EP3 reach LEV-II emission status.

So it appears that the MINI is not the only car with a problem like this. Don't know if the Honda's is as severe, but it has me really exasperated.

Can't somebody just fix the stumble in the MINI so I don't have to consider a different car?

 

^ Here we go again... NO CAR IS PERFECT and NOT ALL MCSs STUMBLE. I know that this doesn't make your life any easier, but you really need to assess why you want a MINI and then if those reasons are eclipsed by "the stumble" (AFTER you've actually driven one and experienced it or not for youself), well, maybe you should look elsewhere. Otherwise, I'll just remind you that those of us discussing this issue all own -- and for the most part are very happy with -- MINIs. And I for one am not about to get rid of mine over the stumble. I'll keep pushing hard for perfection, but don't take it personally if that's a very long search. A bit of uncertainty is part of life.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have wanted a MINI/Mini since I was able to drive. Now I'm pushing 40 and the MINI finally came back to the states.

I have enjoyed my Honda tremendously, both on the track (roadrace/autocross) and off. The only problems it has are ones I introduced when I swapped motors and began heavy modification.

The MINI has been a dream car of mine-the little handling fiend of a car that it is. This quality issue just seems to continue to pop up and once a fix is in hand it is gone just as quick.

The fix seemed to be here with Graham and Phobols repairs, only to vanish just as fast. The engineers not being able to fix it due to DMI learning algorithims and end fighting between the software companies just sucks.

I'm replacing my daily driver and the nearest MINI dealer is 180 miles away. I can deal with some quirkiness, but true quality issues should be able to be fixed by the factory.

I may have to decide between my 24 year long desire to own a MINI and how reliable they are going to be. In the meantime, I'm just hoping for the stumble to be fixed.

 

I'm sorry. This still doesn't do it for me. It sounds good that the car is pre-configured to "learn" the stumble. But let's not forget that NO ONE had the stumble six months ago. Right? This stumble came to any and all of us through a software "upgrade." If it could be brought into the world via software, then it can be taken out just as easily. Or is it that the car "learns" the stumble and then can't "unlearn" it, regardless of the software fix? Is it like a drug addiction? The car has tasted the lovely stumble, but cant give it up....whatever. This is stupid.

 

Does anyone know an information source that would explain what the MINI's specific DME and software programming is trying to do? Perhaps I'm not being very clear, but what I'm looking for is a pretty technical explanation of what exactly is controled via the uploaded software and then where the self-learning algorithms come into play. I wouldn't think that this info would share any trade secrets as it's really just a description of functionality.

I'm getting increasingly frustrated at the building idea that the MINI has a "mind of its own" and/or that its computer is a black box. And further, all of our discussion on these 14 or so pages is really just guessing. So, in this increasingly fuzzy situation, I guess I'm just looking for some solid info that can help me understand just what this DME and software is.

 

>Is it like a drug addiction? The car has tasted the lovely stumble, but cant give it
>up....whatever. This is stupid.

That is hilarious! :smile:

See ya,
JS