MOTORINGFILE

The Auto Channel

The Auto Channel
Will this news affect your decision to buy a Mini? External poll link

 

Now watch all the CR haters say its all meaningless

 

Don't believe its meaningless. The convertible consistently drags down the whole line up. MC hardtop historically fairs better than average, MCS average, convertible below average.

 

I didn't mean the results were meaningless ...

I meant the CR haters will tell you CR is full of crap

 

Aren't they meaningless? CR really bears no relevance for car enthusiasts that are interested in tuning, using the stock car merely as a canvas for their personal goals. CR doesn't take anything resembling that interest into their consideration.

 

Agreed 100% on that point.

But to 99% of the motoring public, its VERY meaningful.

But thats is not what I was getting at, not the modders or tuners. But, rather the loyalists who cannot stand having any magazine say anything not glowing about the MINI brand. It happens. TTAC says something "bad" about the MINI and all hell breaks loose about how terrible TTAC is. Same with CR. Lots of threads on this in the past.

 

Yeah, but, I mean, the majority of Consumer Reports writers, reviewers, analysts (and a heckuva lot of subscribers) still live at home with their mothers....

OK, that was uncalled for. They just all still have Sunday lunch with their mothers....

I lost all confidence in them 20 years ago while working in the bicycle business. Used to have customers walk in asking for the specific models CR rated highest in their latest issue. Then I had to explain to disbelieving CR subscribers that the particular model in the mag hasn't been available for 2 years... which was true. Context-challenged CR reviewer got pegged as a sucker by a bike salesman and got sold an OLD model, tested it, wrote the review, and never bothered to check if it was currently in production... geesh.

OK as a source on which toaster to buy. And maybe on which minivan to buy - maybe....

But worthless for information on enthusiast products of any kind, IMHO. Even for the products that capture reliability/satisfaction data from their reader base, I find that their reader base isn't a representative cross section of Americans or humans in general (you are likely to have some particular tendencies to subscribe to CR - not 100% of the time, but more often than not). And it certainly isn't representative of "enthusiasts" or "early adopters". I filled out my Strategic Vision survey for my new MCSC tonight. There are many questions on there where I said I was "Delighted" or "Very Satisfied" that would register a "Failure" from someone less "enthusiastic" about my car (ride comfort, NVH, etc). Context matters A LOT in these areas. Reasonable convertible owners expect their car to (a) cost more to purchase (b) have more mechanical issues (c) be noisier (d) eventually cost $$$ to replace a top out of warranty if they keep it long enough... so when all these things come true, will I pan the car for low reliability? No. Would someone with different expectations? Probably.

Any magazine that pans Corvettes for going "too fast" or a Lotus because the rear end comes around when you let off the gas in a corner, does NOT share MY context, or understand my priorities... and doesn't get a vote in my buying behavior...

But for folks who find that CR's outlook on the world is reasonably aligned with their own, I highly recommend you follow their advice.

I have close family members who tend to be commerce robots - CR is a key tool in their very mechanical process of choosing to spend money. My household doesn't work that way... and we have a LOT more fun...

 

Two years before they stopped selling in the US, Peugoet was rated by CR as a "Best Buy".....

 

I rest my case.

 

Seems to me the actual results offer a more complex picture...some makes have great tests but poor reliability and visa versa. The problem is that most people probably look only at the ranking and either don't look (or can't find information about) why the ranking is what it is.

Am I to understand that the Cooper coupe is still getting high marks? If that is so, then why would the cabrio be a problem...the soft top?

 

is that Mini is sliding relative to the rest of the industry in the metrics used. Is that important? Is it a sign of the capacity that they're running? Is it a sign that other marques are doing better than the year before? No clue. Can't be bothered to look.

But the numbers matter to many. Sad as it is, Im sure most of those that are swayed by the number have no clue how that mean has changed over time, nor how cars today compare to 10 years ago....... Yet another piece of data to be used out of context....

Matt

 

I like Consumer Reports, and have never felt that they've steered me wrong about microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, or coffee makers. I do, however, agree with Blimey in that a lot of the items that CR reviews are superseded by later models/versions before the issue even hits the newsstand.

I don't think that CR does as well with very technical products, though - things like car stereo products and digital cameras. I don't know if it's because the testers themselves aren't enthusiasts, or because they know that most of their readers aren't, so they have to keep the scope of the reviews limited.

A helpful review of a digital camera like the Nikon D200 or Canon 5D needs more than just a recitation of the specifications and some pictures of test patterns and grid lines.

 

Agreed - I maintain an online CR subscription for this very reason - and they helped me pick an excellent washer and dryer...

But I look elsewhere for advice on less utilitarian things. I apologize if I offended any CR subscribers. I was a little punchy last night...

 

They kind of do. In their Dec issue they note that the Mini is in the top 5 in customer satisfaction in all classes.

 

If customer satisfaction means ease of tuning the engines fuel and ignition mapping, and factory adjustable camber settings, then I'd be shocked.

 

Apparently so. I looked it up in the current issue. The convertible is consistently below average. The main problems are electrical, body integrity and body hardware. I assume the electrical is related to the top. In the dec issue they say "the reliablity of the old design hatchback has been average or better, but the convertible is below average". I looked at the 07 used car guide and the base mc is well above average in all categories. They didn't list the MCS. In the dec issue of cr new car 2007 preview the MCS is predicted to be average, the MC is above average, but not well above average like the 2006 mc. Note their prediction is based on history of the old and caveated with the note: 'Models redesigned for 2007 are shown with (2006) in their model name. In rare cases we make a prediction for a new or redesigned model if the manufacturer's or models history is typically outstanding." The apparently made the above predictions in the dec. issue. (p. 14) 2007 MC is a recommended p. 24.

I suspect most of the plunge in the coming issue is due solely to the convertible as there is no real customer feedback yet for measured reliablity for the coupe. In the April issue they make no mention of the new design and only rate the convertible with the same note as above. "the reliablity of the old design hatchback has been average or better, but the convertible is below average".

For all vehicles the owner satsifaction is near the top, which is what really matters!! I've always taken cr with a grain of salt. You have to read very carefully and cross reference as they contradict themselves quite often. i bought my wife a new 1985 olds calais with 2.5L I-4 and 5 speed. CR trashed the engine, but in other GM vehicles which used the same drivetrain, they complimented it and spoke fondly of the old 'iron duke'. If noted other inconsitencies over the years. For general trends it is probably ok, but I try not to read to much into it. One should also note that in general reliality of all cars is vastly improved in this day and age.

 

You have made a good point and exactly what I answered to Ryephile. For an enthusiast who wants certain things ... it might not be for you. But whether or not you or other people who want to tune the OEM car dont care, the masses do care.

I've bought two new cars since the fall, and got in the mail about 5 different forms to fill in ... some from JD Power, others, I dont even rememeber who but at least they sent me a dollar The forms were long and tedious.

Now lets put this into some perspective.

A question my be ... do you find the ride harsh.

If your used to sports car suspensions, the for a new MCS, your probably going to say NO

If your used to luxo boats, Hondas, Toyotas, your going to say YES.

Its all a matter of perspective.

 

I think what you suggest is indicative of the very high customer satisfaction reported by CR.

 

jeez, not more than a few months ago CR rated the MINI as the only reliable European brand they would recommend, what happened???

 

The current issue lists an available "twin-turbo" engine in the Mini Cooper's vehicle profile. Perhaps that is the variant responsible for the lower reliability?

 

Dang..I gotta call my dealer, didn't see that in the option list..

 

All i can say is that I like CR, I agree with most of their opinions on cars. Over the last ten years their results are usually comparible to those of enthusiast car publications. As to their vehicle reliability results, they seem to be pretty accurate. There are always exceptions to the rule. We bought a 2000 Chrylser Sebring covertible that got tagged as much worse than average for reliability. Eight years later and 90k miles, and it has been extremely reliable.

 

Convertible, see my post above.

 

As I stated in a post above the current issue is relying solely on the convertible for their assessment, with no R56 data. See post above.

 

CU uses very sound testing methods and procedures in probably every comparison/testing category. If you are looking for an appliance, television, house paint or even vehicle, their tests will generally pick the highest performer, the best bang for the buck, and those that you should avoid. In relating reliability figures on items, especially cars, their tight control of testing methods gives way to using surveys from the public. While generally accurate, there can be cases of public bias or perception skewing the resutls one way or another, but the surveys themselves try to leave opinions out and cold facts in place. MINI owners (based on postings here on NAM by members) would undoubtedly nitpick the slightest flaws, where someone with a Honda might not. This can skew the ratings accordingly.

Therein lies the big issue with CR. People tend to get testy when something they feel strongly about gets reduced to simply facts, figures and ratings.