Well said, I remember when mini was first introduced to the US market and recieved some less than desireable ratings from JD Power, BMW responded that the MINI community was more likely to report problems than the average car buyer, hence, it skewed the results somewhat. I can see that as a real possibility when looking at ratings for vehicles.

 

My understanding of statistical surveys is that to get an opinion that is reflective of real conditions, the process must sample an adequate percentage of the population who are owners of a product. So one question to entertain is whether that was done. Since the number of Minis sold is quite small in comparison to other makes of high volume cars, the sampling results may be premature, and more time could yield a different answer. Another point I like to remember is this is a performance machine, and it's not exactly the situation of comparing apples to apples for CR to do this type of comparitive analysis. And finally I don't like to think of a Mini in terms of a daily reliable driver. I remember older cars in the 50s or 60s that had multiple carbs that one might say were 'unreliable', but were powerful to drive. And those who like power, well enough.

 

If you actually read the box in the car ratings section, they clearly state that past hatchback models have been average or better in reliability.

 

"CU uses very sound testing methods and procedures in probably every comparison/testing category. If you are looking for an appliance, television, house paint or even vehicle, their tests will generally pick the highest performer, the best bang for the buck, and those that you should avoid."

Disagree.

I've been selling a/v gear for 30 years and CR is usually so far off the mark when it comes to recommending TVs, DVD players, receivers, etc. its ridiculous. Heck, it wasn't until recently that they actually started listening to the equipment to form their judgments ...they actually recommended gear based on the specs for years!

dean.

 

I've found CU to be useful in the past. Their strong points to me are the reliability data and safety concerns. That being said, they have gone too far on some issues and the usability data is to a large degree just opinion. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

BINGO, we have a winnner

says something "bad" about the MINI and all hell breaks loose

 

So speaks the voice of experience...

 

When it comes to A/V gear, you've stepped well into subjective territory when one could reasonably assume that using specifications (and more importantly, taking direct measurements to verify those specs) would rule the roost. You can line up a bunch of receivers, feed them test signals, measure output power and THD, freq response, the whole battery of tests and come up with the best of the lot in terms of 'the most accurate sound reproduction'. Yet when you take these units out of objective testing and place them in a listening room, the 'winning' unit might be lacking compared to others. Likewise, a television can offer decent resolution and accurate color reproduction in direct measurements, but not look all the great in real world performance. I still stand behind my claim of their testing methods being overall sound, but most people should know that at one point you have to stop comparing raw numbers and start sampling things in real life. THis is easy to do with cars, televisions, audio gear, since all of these things are available for hands-on experience and comparison. It's not so easy with things like paint and appliances. In the case of the former, one does not generally spend a great deal of money for the product, but that product goes through a labor intensive process to apply, and once done, the quality of that product is measured by it's fade resistance, longevity, durability, etc. CU's testing methods for paint result in a pretty good indicator for how long that paint will last in a typical application. There is no way for one to easily comparison shop for paint, and you wont know of your success until a few years down the road.

In the case of appliances, it's not like one can walk into an appliance store with a loaf of Wonder bread and start testing the various toasters. Nor can one bring a load of laundry and try every washer/dryer combo. CU has come up with decent, real-world testing to rate the functionality of various appliances and whatnot and come up with rankings. Some are more subjective, like taste-testing canned hams. But anytime you subject something to testing, you basically reduce whatever that item is to it's functionality. When CU tests cars, they pit one model against another, do acceleration, braking and handling tests, judge the ease of use of controls and displays, measure cargo capacities and headroom in the back sets, etc. There is no category for how one car makes one feel when driving, though there are usually driving impressions noted. They might say an engine might be a bit noisy and use that as a strike against that car, but to some, that noise would be something desirable, like supercharger whine.

The more a particular item elicits a passion in the owner, the harder it is to objectlively reduce that passion into raw numbers. One might not be passionate about a toaster, but they can love or hate their car or their vacuum cleaner. Ask a Dyson owner of their opinion of Consumer Reports and the middling ratings of their wonderful machines.

 

Welll that seems biased on CR's part then, because the cabrios seem to have more problems than the hardtops.

I also think this thread belongs in the First Generation 02-06 section since these are the models CR is basing their assessments on.

 

And this is what they based their "only European-built car we can reccommend" judgement of a few months ago--solid red dots for both customer satisfaction and resale, and blank dot for predicted reliability (up from black dot.)

This kind of yo-yo-ing nonsense is why, to me, CR is more of a gross shopping aisle curiousity than anything else. Like another poster, I used to sell consumer electronics and the ones CR recommended were the most problematic, while the ones they panned held up the best.

The whole thing is a huge scam based on exploiting people's consumer-product fears.

 

HEY! NOW you crossed the LINE

Go ahead and BASH my RAV4 or Toyota ALL you want but BASHING my DYSON crosses the line. Dysons Rock!

Stupid CR, now I know why MINI owners hate CR

 

Yep - I have the Dyson DC14 "Full Gear" model and it's the only vacuum we've ever owned that's kept up with the fur from four cats. I think the bright colours and all the plastic kind of scream "PlaySkool", but I haven't had the first performance or reliability problem.

I think the so-so ratings might be because the Dysons *are* expensive as hell for a vacuum cleaner, but I still think they should have been rated higher.

 

Bravo! I couldn't agree more! CR is for those who ride the peak of the bell curve, not for the people who actually take the time to make decisions themselves after performing their own research and analysis.

In all of the categories in which I have professional training and education (photography, Information Technology, Engineering and automobiles) I ALWAYS disagree with CR. They test for the average user.

Frankly, I even take their toaster testing with a grain of salt, but I do read the magazine just to have one more data source for my own analysis.

 

When CR said JIF was the best tasting peanut butter, well, that was all for me. Everyone knows Skippy tastes best.

dean.

 

Well who in their right mind would buy a Mini for its reliability? If I wanted reliability I would go with Honda. I bought my Mini for use during the weekend. I plan to have fun in it and thats why I bought it.

 

how many more events, on average, that strand a motorist with a car that won't run, happen to Mini? Happen to Honda?

I think you'll find none of us know the answer to this. Also, many of the quality issues are very minor, and overall quality of most marks is significantly better than cars were 10 years ago.

All cars are pretty reliable now, it's relative measure that get blown up into discussions like this.

Matt

 

+1

 

do either of you know how often Minis strand their driver vs a Honda? I tried to find out, but can't find the statistics.....

Here's another one. Is a Mini from one or two years ago have more or less average number of defects than a Honda of 6 years ago (measured when the cars were new)? The reason I ask this is that 6 years ago, Hondas were still considered the paragon of reliability. Where would it fall on the quality scale today? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I bring them up to point out that what we're talking about is the perception of reliability, and if you'd bought a Mini or a Honda, you'd have a reliable car!

Matt

 

I may not have bought my 2 MINIs for their reliability (in 2002-2003 they were too new to know that yet), but my 2003 MCS has turned out to be the best car I've ever owned in terms of reliability, utility, and performance. I drive it daily and I drive it cross-country every year. Plus, it's FUN!

 

I've reads the whole CR car issue. First, for those of you who can't wait to pounce on the "inferiority" of the R56, none of the data in the article is based on the R56. Aside from that, the issue shows that MINI has extremely high customer loyalty, with both maximum satisfaction and resale ratings (full red). Quality has been steadily improving for the MINI. The average and range of complaints for MINI is better than BMW and many other cars. It is also almost certainly true that MINI drivers are more picky about their cars than those who drive ordinary cars. Time after time I have witnessed examples of people just accepting rattles, vibrations, leaks, oil consumption, rust, rough idle, etc. in cars simply because they don't expect anything better. After reading the CR report, I am confident in my choice to be a MINI driver.

 

That would not be me

But.. the R56 is, so far, exhibiting the typical quality control trends of 1st year BMW products

I agree on that the quality of the MINI as a whole has been improving dramatically as each year has gone by

We have been driving MINIs as daily drivers since 2002 and so far none of them have let us down

 

Let's see, CR and the mega underpowered run away Audi 5000's. CR and best buy MB 180. CR and best buy Toro side walk trimmer. CR and any Maytag appliance. CR and GE Profile. Just this year CR and no safe baby seats for auto's. CR and latest stlling Honda recall. CR and Toyota motor law suit. CR and no American auto worth buying. Oh yea, CR the god of what to buy. Dream on..............