My 2nd gen basket case
#1
My 2nd gen basket case
Bought a 2008 R55 S that had motor issues from a guy this past summer. The guy's mechanic buddy had already removed the engine from the car and took the head off and found the #3 piston was missing a piece. I managed to get it home on a tow dolly after I put the front struts back on. This is how it looks now:
This is what I found after taking the engine apart:
The cylinder is deeply gouged probably greater than 2mm deep. I don't think it can be saved with a rebore, but I haven't taken it to a machinist yet.
My first thought was that the car suffered a timing chain failure, but the #3 valves look good to me.
Any idea what caused the piston to fail?
Looking to start ordering parts to install an engine I got of ebay for what I think was a good deal. (those N14 engines are more expensive than the n18s.) I've ordered a valve cover gasket and oil filter housing o-ring, what else needs to be replaced since I've got it all apart? I'm more of a 1st gen guy, but there are alot of 2nd gen basket cases out there for pretty cheap. I got this one for $1100. The exterior and interior are perfect and only had 59K miles when the piston gave up the ghost. Thanks.
This is what I found after taking the engine apart:
The cylinder is deeply gouged probably greater than 2mm deep. I don't think it can be saved with a rebore, but I haven't taken it to a machinist yet.
My first thought was that the car suffered a timing chain failure, but the #3 valves look good to me.
Any idea what caused the piston to fail?
Looking to start ordering parts to install an engine I got of ebay for what I think was a good deal. (those N14 engines are more expensive than the n18s.) I've ordered a valve cover gasket and oil filter housing o-ring, what else needs to be replaced since I've got it all apart? I'm more of a 1st gen guy, but there are alot of 2nd gen basket cases out there for pretty cheap. I got this one for $1100. The exterior and interior are perfect and only had 59K miles when the piston gave up the ghost. Thanks.
Last edited by RUPNOK; 03-20-2018 at 09:32 PM.
#4
Can you suggest what else I need to consider replacing while I have the engine out? Gasket, o-rings, ect?
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Northern (04-04-2024)
#5
Not really. Once it brakes it gets squished by the piston in less than a second depending on rpms.
when i got this job from a fellow NAM, it was pretty much a full rebuild. you'll have to replace the block, and while you there you pretty much can replace bearings, main seals, rings, then valve stem seals.
when i got this job from a fellow NAM, it was pretty much a full rebuild. you'll have to replace the block, and while you there you pretty much can replace bearings, main seals, rings, then valve stem seals.
#6
Not really. Once it brakes it gets squished by the piston in less than a second depending on rpms.
when i got this job from a fellow NAM, it was pretty much a full rebuild. you'll have to replace the block, and while you there you pretty much can replace bearings, main seals, rings, then valve stem seals.
when i got this job from a fellow NAM, it was pretty much a full rebuild. you'll have to replace the block, and while you there you pretty much can replace bearings, main seals, rings, then valve stem seals.
My plan is to use this engine's crank and main and conrod bearings on a 2009 MCS that I bought about a month ago with a slight rod knock. But I won't know for sure until I drop the pan.
I'll admit it, I'm an addict, I love to fix broken cars. My two oldest kids have R53s that I rehabilitated. Really this is all an exercise for my ultimate project which will be a LSx swap into a smallish car.
Last edited by RUPNOK; 03-09-2018 at 08:27 PM.
#7
Took the block to the machinist and it is pretty much toast. The head looks good so I'm going to get it ready to use on the 09 MCS.
Sorted the fasteners that I got with the car and ones I got with the rebuilt engine.
Managed to find the bolts to put the motor and transmission mounts back on the frame. Kind of difficult to figure out where all the fasteners go when you didn't take the car apart.
Sorted the fasteners that I got with the car and ones I got with the rebuilt engine.
Managed to find the bolts to put the motor and transmission mounts back on the frame. Kind of difficult to figure out where all the fasteners go when you didn't take the car apart.
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#8
I believe it is detonation damage that’s the only way a piston will melt and detonation can be caused by a number of things. Did it have any aftermarket components on it or any tuning done to it?
Post some pictures of any bolts you have in question that sounds like a fun challenge to identify whatever you have!
Post some pictures of any bolts you have in question that sounds like a fun challenge to identify whatever you have!
#9
I believe it is detonation damage that’s the only way a piston will melt and detonation can be caused by a number of things. Did it have any aftermarket components on it or any tuning done to it?
Post some pictures of any bolts you have in question that sounds like a fun challenge to identify whatever you have!
Post some pictures of any bolts you have in question that sounds like a fun challenge to identify whatever you have!
Like I said I took the block to the machinist who said most likely it is toast, but he would have to rough bore it to see if the damage is too deep. I really didn't want to spend the money to see if it was salvageable as I don't want to spend big money on larger pistons. I have another 2nd gen (09 MCS) that is still running but has a slight rod knock. My thought was to polish the crank from this car and use it on the 09 with new bearings and a hone job, the total seal rings that you used on your r55, and refresh the head from this r55 to use on the 09. That would leave me with an extra head in good used shape that I could sell or keep as a spare (wife hates my "spares").
Did you replace every gasket and o-ring when you did your engine? Any particular brand or original mini?
Every time I go to put a part on I have to go to realoem to find the bolt size and then spend some more time trying to find the fastener from the small bits organizer. I know I have a few parts and many fasteners missing. I just bought the heat shields to the turbo and cat from a local guy who parts out 2nd gen cars.
#10
Yea that’s definitely a better idea than trying to salvage that block. you should tear apart that other one first to see how bad it is internally it can’t be much worse than this one. I’d recommend keeping the rotating assembly together instead of swapping cranks around since they are factory balanced. As for the piston rings they should have the specs I can give you the email to the guy I was in contact with there. The rings were about $220 with tax I bought the gapless top ring set in the chrome steel. I bought a gasket set on eBay for around $80 it came with intake gaskets, valve cover gasket, front & rear crank seals, valve stem seals, water pump & thermostat gaskets, filter housing gasket, and the head gasket. Timing set was off ebay for around $80. Main and rod bearings & thrust washer were $120 from UK eBay all US suppliers are horribly expensive. Turbo rebuild was $30 just look for a k03 rebuild kit nothing mini specific. Any other o rings were just matched up at parts stores and replaced. It was definitely a budget build but I’ve used the same timing kits and gasket sets on a few other minis with no issues
the only thing I did buy from mini was the rear plugs that hide the 2 rear main cap bolts but those were cheap
the only thing I did buy from mini was the rear plugs that hide the 2 rear main cap bolts but those were cheap
#11
Yea that’s definitely a better idea than trying to salvage that block. you should tear apart that other one first to see how bad it is internally it can’t be much worse than this one. I’d recommend keeping the rotating assembly together instead of swapping cranks around since they are factory balanced. As for the piston rings they should have the specs I can give you the email to the guy I was in contact with there. The rings were about $220 with tax I bought the gapless top ring set in the chrome steel. I bought a gasket set on eBay for around $80 it came with intake gaskets, valve cover gasket, front & rear crank seals, valve stem seals, water pump & thermostat gaskets, filter housing gasket, and the head gasket. Timing set was off ebay for around $80. Main and rod bearings & thrust washer were $120 from UK eBay all US suppliers are horribly expensive. Turbo rebuild was $30 just look for a k03 rebuild kit nothing mini specific. Any other o rings were just matched up at parts stores and replaced. It was definitely a budget build but I’ve used the same timing kits and gasket sets on a few other minis with no issues
the only thing I did buy from mini was the rear plugs that hide the 2 rear main cap bolts but those were cheap
the only thing I did buy from mini was the rear plugs that hide the 2 rear main cap bolts but those were cheap
Check out the responses I got when I asked about the ebay gasket sets: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-any-good.html
#12
Yes that would be ideal but you could swap the cranks and get everything rebalanced by your machine shop but that’s extra money
that’s funny that you get such negative responses because I’ve used cheap eBay gaskets on anything I have ever put together for myself personally and any side work I do I always give my customers the cheap parts option but I will never turn you away from buying oe parts. I think these cheap kits are just overstock sourced from different manufacturers they never look of inferior quality in my opinion. The only times I’ve had issues with gaskets were due to improper installation whether it be pinching a gasket, improper torque or misaligning a seal not some shenanigans that it was a “cheap” gasket. But it’s true you never can beat any oem gasket they are nice if you have the money for it go with factory mini parts if not go cheap
that’s funny that you get such negative responses because I’ve used cheap eBay gaskets on anything I have ever put together for myself personally and any side work I do I always give my customers the cheap parts option but I will never turn you away from buying oe parts. I think these cheap kits are just overstock sourced from different manufacturers they never look of inferior quality in my opinion. The only times I’ve had issues with gaskets were due to improper installation whether it be pinching a gasket, improper torque or misaligning a seal not some shenanigans that it was a “cheap” gasket. But it’s true you never can beat any oem gasket they are nice if you have the money for it go with factory mini parts if not go cheap
#13
Yes that would be ideal but you could swap the cranks and get everything rebalanced by your machine shop but that’s extra money
that’s funny that you get such negative responses because I’ve used cheap eBay gaskets on anything I have ever put together for myself personally and any side work I do I always give my customers the cheap parts option but I will never turn you away from buying oe parts. I think these cheap kits are just overstock sourced from different manufacturers they never look of inferior quality in my opinion. The only times I’ve had issues with gaskets were due to improper installation whether it be pinching a gasket, improper torque or misaligning a seal not some shenanigans that it was a “cheap” gasket. But it’s true you never can beat any oem gasket they are nice if you have the money for it go with factory mini parts if not go cheap
that’s funny that you get such negative responses because I’ve used cheap eBay gaskets on anything I have ever put together for myself personally and any side work I do I always give my customers the cheap parts option but I will never turn you away from buying oe parts. I think these cheap kits are just overstock sourced from different manufacturers they never look of inferior quality in my opinion. The only times I’ve had issues with gaskets were due to improper installation whether it be pinching a gasket, improper torque or misaligning a seal not some shenanigans that it was a “cheap” gasket. But it’s true you never can beat any oem gasket they are nice if you have the money for it go with factory mini parts if not go cheap
#14
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191554091948
these are the main bearings
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191528024180
these are the connecting rod bearings
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191528029271
these are the thrust washers
this same supplier also has well priced piston rings that I have used in a previous build
Both blocks should use the same bearing set there’s no difference in bearings between the n12, n14, n16, or n18
you can never go wrong with felpro and parts stores never have an issue warrantying anything out the only downside I have had with any eBay gasket or part from them in general is warranty is such a pain to go through but it’s about the same amount of hassle trying to have a dealer warranty out any parts purchase
these are the main bearings
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191528024180
these are the connecting rod bearings
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191528029271
these are the thrust washers
this same supplier also has well priced piston rings that I have used in a previous build
Both blocks should use the same bearing set there’s no difference in bearings between the n12, n14, n16, or n18
you can never go wrong with felpro and parts stores never have an issue warrantying anything out the only downside I have had with any eBay gasket or part from them in general is warranty is such a pain to go through but it’s about the same amount of hassle trying to have a dealer warranty out any parts purchase
#15
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191554091948
these are the main bearings
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191528024180
these are the connecting rod bearings
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191528029271
these are the thrust washers
this same supplier also has well priced piston rings that I have used in a previous build
Both blocks should use the same bearing set there’s no difference in bearings between the n12, n14, n16, or n18
you can never go wrong with felpro and parts stores never have an issue warrantying anything out the only downside I have had with any eBay gasket or part from them in general is warranty is such a pain to go through but it’s about the same amount of hassle trying to have a dealer warranty out any parts purchase
these are the main bearings
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191528024180
these are the connecting rod bearings
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F191528029271
these are the thrust washers
this same supplier also has well priced piston rings that I have used in a previous build
Both blocks should use the same bearing set there’s no difference in bearings between the n12, n14, n16, or n18
you can never go wrong with felpro and parts stores never have an issue warrantying anything out the only downside I have had with any eBay gasket or part from them in general is warranty is such a pain to go through but it’s about the same amount of hassle trying to have a dealer warranty out any parts purchase
For posterity's sake the Fel-Pro kit I ordered is the HSU 26454 from OSCARO for $122 shipped.
#16
I believe this is what you’re talking about right? I’m not sure what the point of this is since the journals all measure out the same. The bearings I received had no markings other than brand and size. I know that ford has a chart just like that for bearings and piston rings when you order from them but they list sizes since different colors are different sizes. But their size difference is very small like thousandths of an inch difference. So mini may do something like that I honestly don’t know
#17
#18
#19
I gave my head to the machinist without the cams, so I guess I be putting on the teflon rings. Had my head decked and refreshed with new seals and valve guides for $378. I think that is reasonable. Will post up pictures when I get it tomorrow.
#20
#21
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Northern California Bay Area
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Sounds like you’ve built a few engins
Any idea where I can get the service limits on everything? What size and grit flex hone should I use? Most ring sets come pregapped right? I’m seeing a big difference in price for the valves too. Any good aftermarket options? Are they exactly the same size and material? I don’t know man I’m feeling I gotta get the factory stuff for the internals.
#22
Any idea where I can get the service limits on everything? What size and grit flex hone should I use? Most ring sets come pregapped right? I’m seeing a big difference in price for the valves too. Any good aftermarket options? Are they exactly the same size and material? I don’t know man I’m feeling I gotta get the factory stuff for the internals.
Last edited by RUPNOK; 03-20-2018 at 09:28 PM.
#23
You are right, part #11127560273. Couldn't find the purple one.
#24
#25
Brought my water cooled 4 cylinder head home on my air cooled 2 cylinder
Head is nice and clean. So the entire job of decking, testing, valve job, new seals and new exhaust guides was $378. Just need to reinstall the lifters.
The purple o-ring is not for the BOV.
My machinist wants $150-170 to bore and press in some sleeves to save the block plus $200 for the four sleeves. Then the block will still need to be decked. I can get a good used block for about $300 so it is not economical to try to save the block. He also said if you want to hone a block that is in good shape take off about half a thousandth. He also said that you can go by the charts but you can safely use standard aftermarket bearings as well.
Last edited by RUPNOK; 03-21-2018 at 08:58 PM.