I am a registered noob, though i have been getting advice from these forums for 11 years.

Here is my question: About 18 months ago, my 2004 mini was hit hard from behind, with a lot of the impact hitting the left rear wheel, while parked on the downsloping side of a hill. I attached a pic, which shows the really sad angle of the driver's-side wheel. I had it towed to my regular shop and they fixed it up. Then, about six months ago, after having moved, I went to a new shop. They discovered a problem with my wheel hub assembly on the back drivers-side wheel that cost $518 to repair. They suggested that my rear wheel could fall off. I attached a pic of the parts that they replaced as part of that repair.

I thought my first shop would refund the cost with an apology, but they haven't been super responsive and didn't seem to be sure that there was a problem with the repair. They suggested that my insurance company would address the issue.

So...my question to the experts: did my original shop mess up? Did my new shop take advantage of my naivety? Is there something wrong with those chrome bolts?

Thanks in advance.

 

The "hub" is BEHIND the rim....so cannot see it....
I'm going to guess the bearings in the hub failed...kinda common in the months AFTER an accident...so the hub was replaced...did you hear a "whirring" sound that went faster as you speed up or got worse or less noticeable as you went around a corner? If so..it was the bearings.

 

Thanks for the extremely fast response, and sorry for my poor knowledge of car part vocabulary.

After the repairs, I didn't notice anything amiss (no whirring, etc), and nothing truly failed. I went in for routine maintenance and the new shop uncovered this issue.

So you don't think the newly installed bearings were the wrong type?

 

If the bearings were 3rd party new and of dubious quality they could have worn, Were the suspension arm components and bushings repaired or replaced ? As for the cost of the bearings, in Australia, BMW will quote you $400 approx. for each wheel for OEM bearings (hub assembly), 3rd party OEM suppliers can quote around $300 per assembly. Ebay has OEM quality after market assembly for $140-$200. There are cheaper 3rd party non OEM bearings, again with dubious quality. If the hub assembly was replaced, what was it replaced with. If the suspension trailing arm was damaged and not replaced, it would contribute to the bearing failing as the suspension would not be tracking true which would create undue ware and tear on the bearing/hub assembly.


Have the car inspected for not only the bearing but also the suspension components and make sure the Camber is also correct. Bite the bullet and take it to a Mini dealership, it wont be cheap but they will know if things are not up to specs.


Edit:


Regarding the wrong type, I very much doubt it, quality if not OEM sure, but also consider damage to other components.


A word on non OEM parts, When I used to work in Customs Clearance, a well known car parts OEM Supplier Brand, imported components into Australia. Parts that were 100% were sold under the brand name, the same parts from the same factory that had a cosmetic blemish were sold under 3rd party brand names as non OEM components ! ZF Manufacturing are a German Company that builds OEM steering and power steering components (think Gen 1 R50,R52,R53 Power Steering pumps), these are actually manufactured in Kulim, Malaysia, about 1 hours drive inland from Penang and have been for at least 12-18 months and then shipped world wide, something to think about

 

First, thanks for bothering with the questions of a noob.

Unfortunately I think I am too clueless to answer your questions. I *think* the rear suspension components were replaced. Basically the entire back left corner of the car had to be replaced.
At the time of the new mechanic's repairs, he suggested that the chrome nuts were completely inappropriate for this application (this is based on 6 month old memory). But give that so far no one seems to think that pic is out of line...well, I guess I don't know who to trust.

 

I cant see why chrome nuts are inappropriate to hold your wheels on if the Hub has been fitted with wheel studs as opposed to the conventional bolts. If the wheels are held on securely and to the correct torque setting they should be fine. If the mechanic found them to be inappropriate and believed that they were an issue, then he should of stood his ground and refuse to put them back on in the knowledge that they were wrong. The fact that he hasn't suggests to me that he either doesn't know or is pulling your leg. If I was concerned about the wheel nuts, I would refuse to continue to work on the car due to liability of further incident that would fall back on me if you had an accident or ongoing repair issues unless you authorised me to replace them with the correct components. The fact your still driving on chrome nuts tells me he either is pulling your leg or has no integrity in his standard of work and duty of care.


Get it into a Mini specialist or dealership, pay to get it checked to see if all suspension components and mounts are in order, if the suspension is tracking correctly, then there should be no issue with wheel bearings unless a sub standard after market bearing/hub assembly is used.


Don't worry about being a noob, knowing terminology etc, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask !

 

It's difficult to tell from the picture but are those bolts actually tightening down "inside" the original hole?
Chrome bolts are not an issue - what's important is that they are the same length and angle on the head.
As an example (this was picked at random) -
Thread size M14 x 1.5
Seat: R13
Shaft Length: 26.7mm

 

from the picture it appears to me that the replacement hub was set up with tradinal studs and lug nuts rather than the long bolts that come on a MINI frm the factory


What's on your other wheels? Are they innies or outies?


Here's a stud conversion kit
http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...rsion-kit.html


here's the standard lug bolt



further it looks to me as another has said, that the lug bolts (on studs) are the wrong size (they're being chrome is not important) and are sitting INSIDE the wheel holes improperly and this COULD be causing undue stress to the hub and bearing but due to the 'hub centric' OE wheels they'd be sitting centered ... but possibly not flush . . .


too technical?


added:


looking at OP's picture again, it does NOT look like the wheel is sitting on the hub ring correctly! OE wheels fit so tightly to the hub ring that people often have trouble getting the wheel loose, yet at the bottom of the picture I see a visible gap "in the hole"

 

Capt BJ is right, I'd check to even make sure they are conocal seat. They appear to be lugs for Dodge product purchased from Autozone ? That could be the only issue here.

 

If we are right and the bolts/nuts don't have the correct seat then I wouldn't drive it. Alloy wheels were never meant to be put under stress like that.

 

This is such a great community, thank you everyone.

My new mechanic replaced the problem wheel hub assembly. I am just hoping to get my old shop to refund the cost of the repair and I wanted to know if the experts here think that I am correct in asking them to do so.

The sense I am getting from your comments is that after the accident, my shop should have attached the new hub with long bolts, but instead used studs and lug nuts, and the thicker nuts didn't fit properly and are therefore keeping the wheel and hub ring from attaching properly. Am I interpreting things correctly?

Here is a pic of a different wheel for comparison.
Also, here is a pic of the part that my new shop removed and replaced. Maybe this angle is a better illustration.

 

Well so far as MY reply . . . no


I'm not seeing/saying anything about how the hub was attached to the car


all I'm seeing is how the wheel is attached to the hub


and it scares me


I'm thinking you went from bad to worse mechanic wise ... BUT my opinion is limited to what I see in your pictures.


In my OPINION you have someone who's trying to use cheap parts that ALMOST fit


to be honest .. you're a female'? I think we have a CLASSIC case of a girl getting ripped off.


Where abouts do you live .... I'd LOVE to go talk to your mechanic and I'm sure other MiNi folks would be equally ready to help out.


I'm in the Cape Canaveral / Orlando area

 

The first picture is obviously wheel nuts but the second could be bolts (but they are wrong anyway). I don't understand why you would change those other than to save a few bucks. Whoever fitted them was cutting corners so in my opinion they should be correcting that.

 

I can see the problem with the nuts. They are too small for the holes in the wheels, the only thing keeping them from falling off is the corners of the edge of the head. The wheels should be held in with the tapered part of the nut. The hub assembly didn't need to be changed, unless it was, in fact, the wrong part. The only thing that needed to be changed was the lug nuts themselves, and have the holes in the wheels for the studs checked to make sure they weren't pounded out from the improper nuts. Unfortunately it looks as if the first mechanic doesn't know/care to use proper parts, and the second mechanic doesn't explain what he's doing very well.

 

There is a whole lot of accusations being thrown about in this thread and it doesn't sound like everyone is reading all of the posts before throwing their 2 cents in...

If the whole rear corner of the car was replaced after the accident then the hub should have been replaced too. The hub is the part that the wheel bolts to and contains the wheel bearing. It looks like when the first shop did the replacement they replaced it with an incorrect hub. I'm not aware of any mini hubs that have studs pre-installed. It almost looks like they installed some sort of "universal" hub since there is an extra lug hole in the picture of the hub in your hand.

Also, in the piece that was taken off the car by the second shop. Can you look at the backside and see if the lug studs were pressed in from the backside or if they thread into the hub and then the lug nut threads onto the stud. If they were pressed in from the back side it should have been drilled out to remove the existing threads and then new studs pressed in. It doesn't look like it was although it'd be hard to tell from your picture.

Basically the first shop screwed up bad. I think your options for having them repair it properly is probably not very good. If there was an issue with the repairs and the first shop is ignoring you then you should be going to your insurance company to tell them that the repairs were done poorly. Although depending on your insurance provider the first shop could have repaired the car as requested by the insurance company. Not all insurance companies replace parts with new OEM stuff. Lots of them use aftermarket or used parts when possible. So part of the blame could be with the insurance company. Or it could be a shop saying they did one thing (replace with new OEM parts) but in fact replace the parts with crappy aftermarket pieces and then pocketing the difference in cost.

The second shop sounds like a much more reliable place. Replacing the hub may have been unnecessary but considering the quality of work the first shop performed it wouldn't surprise me that the hub needed replacement. I certainly wouldn't want to drive around on lug nuts that aren't properly securing my wheel to the car.

 

Uhhh.... that "extra lug hole" is for the brake rotor.



Here is the rear brake.

 

It looked too big to be for the brake rotor retaining bolt and I was thinking it didn't have the appropriate "taper" for the head of the retaining bolt. But of course the tapered hole is in the brake rotor and not the wheel hub Oops. Carry on...