Helps determine BTDC without appropriate tools.


Thank you for your help

 

umm.... how to determine degrees before top dead center without any tools?

that's not really possible

 

I had a vague idea that you should put all 4 pistons midpoint
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The popular reason for putting all 4 pistons at midpoint is to set the cam position. Doing it without the recommended, or equivalent tools, is a serious risk. Just a couple degrees off could cause real problems. If you align the flywheel "cam setting hole" with the engine housing "cam setting hole", and lock it in place, the risk is less, but you still gotta position the cams. How you gonna do that without the "special tools"?

 

According to an earlier thread and the Bentley you are close to 90 degrees BTDC when you position the cams with the writing on them are straight up.

This info can help you pin the flywheel in the correct position because their are apparently 2 holes in the flywheel.

You can't do much more without the special tools.

 

There's only one hole in the flywheel I used, but the flywheel makes two revolutions for each cam revolution, so it can be locked in the wrong position. If the cams are NOT being removed, i.e., timing chain replacement, it's important to have the "writing" visible, so the cams are locked at 90 degrees. When cams are removed, they can be in any position, BUT, they better be installed as described by BigDaddy0128.

And FYI --- TDC is short for Top Dead Center. Bottom Dead Center is sometimes used and is shortened to BDC. I don't believe BTDC is legitimate.

Tech69, why are you asking for help --- what are you going to do?

 

BTDC == "Before Top Dead Center". Ignition timing specs are often given that way.

 

Thanx for the info --- I've been out of the loop a long time.

 

Hi thanks for help ... I'm trying to repair the head.
The oil got into the water tank, and that problem was resolved.
The problem was that no use special tools for camshafts,
what I did was:
mark the camshafts with the piston at TDC,
so the car starts, and 10 min sheds failure "camshaft sensor backward"
when I put 90 ° BTDC pistons and camshaft marks facing the ceiling, the car does not turn

 

Sounds like you changed a head gasket, or maybe even the head. You haven't told us the engine type --- N12, N14, N18 or anything else about the car that might help. "--- the car does not turn" means what --- won't start or won't crank? Are you sure your 90 deg BTDC is not 90 deg after TDC? And, if you don't have the Bentley manual, you should get one before continuing.

There's also a timing chain tensioner tool that should be used before tightening the vanos unit(s). So ---
1. lock the flywheel at 90 deg BTDC using the built-in hole (tool can be improvised)
2. lock the cams with writing up (don't know how to fake this tool)
3. set the timing chain tension with the tensioner tool (tool can be improvised)
4. tighten the vanos unit(s)
5. install the tensioner

There's obviously a lot more to it than this, but a tensioner tool is needed to ensure timing is correct. Chain tension can affect timing by several degrees. Then there's hardware torque settings, and "stretch bolts" that shouldn't be used more than once. All kinds of things to consider before tearing down an engine. Hopefully, you already know most of this. I can't help with the "camshaft sensor backward" error --- it might mean cams installed WRONG, not a sensor 180 deg out.

By not using the proper tools / instructions, all I can do is wish you luck. "Trial and error" can be very costly.

 

The engine is R56 N 18. Replace the head gasket. I have MINI COOPER "S" R56 Body - N18 Engine Repair Manual. But information is scarce.

Where I can get the manual Bentley?

 

All the suggestions and info I supplied are for working on the N14 engine. It should still apply to the N18, but I can't be sure.

The latest Bentley manual is for model year 2007 thru 2011. Depending on your location, a large bookstore might have one. Quickest might be Amazon.com and cheapest might be the "for sale" section of this forum. There are other forums for Mini's, with their own classified section. Maybe try there too.

Best of luck ---

 

Retailers like ECS Tuning and Pelican Parts also carry the Bentley manual.

 

I have removed my head and locked everything in postion. I need to remove the cams and rockers on my 2008. The shops will not set up the cam once completed, do i need to get any BMW tools to set cam back on the heads to set them up? or do i just use my cam tools i already have for the mini?

 

Cams can be mounted in the head while "on the bench". If crank isn't set to 90 deg, you have the possibility of damage when mounting the head. Final cam settings should be made with head mounted, cams set, and chain tensioned, per the Bentley manual. Using any tools other than factory recommended is a huge risk.

And, if you removed the injectors from the head, I strongly suggest you let the dealer install a new seal set BEFORE any other assembly is done. That is one pricey tool for the DIY'r, who will seldom use it.

 

I have locked the motor before i removed the head so no issue.

 

I would like to knwo if anyone has a photo or book on how the VANOS gear is postion on the cam. I took the gears off out of time and now car is running but stalls at idle. Dealer keeps coming up wiht a VANOS fault, I cahnged both sensors but still stalls at idle and ***** up when you remove your foot off the gas. Any help??? I think the VANOS gears were not set in the correct postion.
RObert