It's a well known fact that Mini/Renault screwed up on the timing chains for these cars from 2007-2010. The chain gets stretched pretty easily and the band-aid fix is to install a longer chain tensioner with a higher spring rate to take up the slack in the chain. The only problem with this fix is it places more stress on the chain guides and over time, they will wear prematurely.

I have a 2007 Mini Cooper S with 77,500 miles (125,000km) that is bone stock.

The longer chain tensioner part number that I used was 11-31-4-609-482.

Here is a before/after video I made:

Overall, I am not happy with the results and put the stock one back on.

 

I was always under the impression the problem was not with the chain itself, but with the tensioner. It would fail to operate properly when the motor was cold, which in turn would cause a variety of timing chain/parts related problems. Trying to get it to work correctly is why they have gone through several iterations of the part trying to get the fix right.

As far as the before and after, I did not hear any rattle in the before portion. Sounds like a normally running MINI engine. So unclear what you were expecting to be different after swapping out the tensioner or why you did it other than as a preventative measure.

 

From my understanding, its the chain itself. That is why they measure how much slack is in the chain before they decide what tensioner to use in order to take up that slack.

I dunno man, it sounds like the "death rattle" to me but I am no expert.

If this is a normal sounding engine, its embarrassing.

 

My tensioner was replaced at 3K on my 09 Cooper S, now at 45K I still haven't heard any further noise.

I heard it the way Jcausey explained it too...

The "death rattle" term has been erroneously applied to everything from the tensioner noise to injector noise to a bad throwout bearing, it's one of those terms that is cute to say (like stealership) but really has no meaning.

I'd prefer it if people actually found out what the noise was before complaining about the so called death rattle.

The loose tensioner noise in my car sounded exactly like what it was, a tensioner that wasn't applying tension to the chain, allwing it to rattle in it's guides. It was a distinct noise, and followed the rpm of the engine, till at about 3K it suddenly went away - as the tensioner took up the slack. It was not a continous noise, and was most prevalent when started from cold (not particularly ambient temp related, just a cold engine) and as I said went away as soon as the oil pressure forced the tensioner out. Replacing the faulty tensioner fixed it for me.

In my reading the people who have most commonly had catastrophic failure of their timing chain either were not aware of what the noise was and continued to drive their car, or people who don't change or check their oil, and allowed it to run down excessively. Some people have said they heard a noise, but didn't know what it was and didn't take it in to find out what it was, or took it in warm when it wasn't doing it and didn't leave it overnight.

Either way, if you think your timing chain tensioer has failed again or the chain is excessively stretched, you'd be money ahead to have the whole chain, guides and tensioner replaced now, it's a lot less expensive than a new engine!

 

If the engine was making the rattle, the SIM specified the first step was to measure the amount of slack in the timing chain. If the chain had not yet been stretched "too far", MINI would just replace the tensioner and nothing else. If the tensioner had caused sufficient damage by stretching the chain too much or caused other damage, then a complete replacement of the timing chain system was performed.

Given that so many of these repairs were being done under warranty, seems a reasonable conclusion that the reason they measured the chain was to figure out whether they could eat the cost of just a tensioner or if they would have to eat the cost to replace the entire timing chain assembly.

Somewhere along the way, MINI must have figured that if the chain had been stretched, but not beyond a certain point, they needed a slightly longer tensioner as putting in the original size with a stretched chain just resulted in re-work as the MINI would eventually be back in for the same repair again. This resulted in two different versions of the tensioner.

Not sure what has led to them now having just one version of the tensioner.

 

my friend who's a tech said sometimes the slack is actually caused by the metal chain "wearing away" the plastic guardrail, which is usually why they replace the whole assembly under warranty ( timing chain and guardrails) the longer tensioner is just a bandaid it seems

 

So I hear a minor rattle on my car, not sure if its the death rattle but I am horrified at the possibility of the timing chain going out. Is there a way to check it? Should I just go ahead and get the tensioner, it seems to be around 20 bucks and if it saves me a 4k repair job in the future than I will do that.

 

what part kit did you get to do the repair?
mine just started out of no where and sounds absolutely horrendous so I'm not driving it until i swap the timing chain, tensioner and all related parts

i just don't know if their is a new improvised kit or where to order it from

i dont trust the dealership

 

When I click to play the video it says its no longer available. That said, I wonder if there are any statistics on the number of cars produced vs those where the problem has surfaced. I'm looking at a well kept 2010 MCS with 54K and after reviewing the service records that this repair has not been done. Having owned an R53 MCS which had zero problems for the 3 years + I owned it, I know full well that when an issue surfaces it does not necessarily impact ever single car made. I also notice the law suit states the 2010 Cooper Convertible but doesn't mention the hatchback which I find interesting.. And yes the car will get a full PPI and oil was changed about every 6-7K miles.

 

Oil changes have nothing to do with the timing chain stretching, it's do to poor quality of the timing chain tensioner that is the heart of the problem. Theres only one way to find out if the car your looking at either has a chain that has already begun to stretch or not, if it has started stretching the outcome is inevitable because once it starts stretching it doesn't stop. Replacing the tensioner only delays the inevitable.

There are quite a few owners that have gone through 3-4 timing chain replacements.

 

I just spoke with the original owner of a 2010 MCS who knows about the issue but hasn't had a single problem with the car which now has 47K miles. He's taken it on long road trips where over 1200 miles was put on the car in less than a week without any problems. I'm also curious if the chain can be inspected during a pre-purchase inspection though I suspect it requires hours of labor to do it which I don't want to pay. From what I've been told if a shop goes to the trouble to inspect it you might as well replace it. Is it true this is a $2K repair?

What I know to be true when it comes to defective design is that it does NOT impact EVERY SINGLE car manufactured. I've owned cars with known issues and mine have never experienced them. If every single engine made during those years crashed and burned I would think the law suit would be far bigger than $30 million much like the one against VW for the diesel engine issue.

 

My local Mini dealer sees at least 3-5 Mini's a week for timing chain replacements and that's been consistent for the 3 years I've gone there, I stay the hell away now. I don't think your grasping the situation here, when it all started Mini recalled 80,000 Mini's, that number has climbed and continues to do so. I know you absolutely are struck by the addiction of driving a MCS, but you haven't seen every thread on just the timing chain issues, one thread has 15 pages and just one!

Add to that the price increase of rebuilt engines going from $4000 to $7000, and more and more Mini's are needing replacement engines. There's a shortage according to the vendors that sell them.

 

From my experience:

The factory tensioner is the first part of the issue. The tensioner does not keep enough tension on the chain to stop it from slapping around against the plastic guides, loudly. That's part of the rattle. Eventually the chain slaps the upper plastic guide hard enough or enough times repeatedly that the guide shatters. When I took apart my 2009 MCS with 48k on it, the upper guide was completely destroyed, and every piece of it was being tossed around by the chain, or was in the oil pan. That's the second part of the rattle. After that guide goes, the timing chain is free to really slap around and make noise, adding even more to that terrible rattle. Eventually the chain can jump and throw your engine timing off, which leads to more damage. I caught mine before the timing was out too far, but it was definitely out. I had a nice loud rattle, but no limp mode or anything.

 

Based on what you say here along with @systemlord as well as a long chat with the local dealer service manager I believe I'm going to pass on the whole idea of owning a Mini again. Obviously they did a very poor job of engineering and building these cars at the customer's cost. That's never a good thing though just about every car on the road has problems though this one is BIG!

 

Not that the N18 is bullet-proof, but I would be looking for a MINI with the N18. I was headed to look at a 2010 when I saw my 2011 at a local BMW dealer. I loved the color of the 2010 (dark gray with black roof, mirrors, and wheels), but it was a private sale, with 54k versus my dealer-bought 2011 with 21k in BRG2. Also, the BMW dealer had a pretty good deal on a Hendricks warranty, so I sprung for that as well. My 2011 has never left me stranded, but that warranty has replaced a HPFP, 4 coil packs, an engine-driven water pump, an aux water pump, a friction wheel, and a water pump pulley. Plus a few other items that I am forgetting right now. 3 trips the the MINI dealer for all of this stuff to be replaced, a free loaner car each time, and at 54k now. Bottom line? IF you are going to buy a used MINI, make it a low-mileage one, with the N18, preferably from a dealer, and spring for the warranty. The N18's do not seem to suffer the timing chain and/or tensioner problems anywhere near as often as the N14, and it appears that the N18 has a re-designed PCV system which may not entirely eliminate carbon buildup on the intake valves, but has certainly seemed to reduce it a LOT. These are my experiences, and YMMV. Good luck!

 

My 2007 MCS had almost the same experience at about 48000 miles. I had taken the car in to Mini of Peabody
To have some minor work done before the warranty expires. I had experienced the cold engine rattle since the car was new and had complained to the original dealer Brian Harris Mini) from the first service on, and had been repeatedly told "it's normal". The mechanics at Peabody were horrified with what they found, what with the plastic guides in the oil pan, repaired everything under warranty, and told me they couldn't believe a dealer would just ignore the problem once reported. I think I was extremely fortunate, but now I wonder if I need to be on the lookout for more potential problems from the timing chain.

 

Well at the time Mini really didn't know why the engine would sometimes rattle on cold startup and assumed it was normal until engines started eating themselves, even after they knew the cause Mini denied any knowledge and started blaming customer's for not checking the oil. Mini denied any warranty claims (even while under manufacturer's warranty) due to the timing chain tensioner issues. Then Mini started redesigning the tensioner 2, 3, 4 and a 5th redesign. Why redesign a tensioner 5 times if there's nothing wrong with it?

 

That's what I'm saying...

I dealt with a service writer at Mini of Pensacola who was surprisingly enthusiastic about avoiding replacement of my bad HPFP under warranty, and instead having me pay over $3000 to address the timing chain and carbon build-up. It's not very amusing to me how quick the dealerships are to blame all these mechanical shortcomings on the people who buy their cars.

 

To be fair, the direct inject + timing chain design should reasonably produce some rattle... Just like every other component on the car

You're lucky they covered that work under your warranty. I bought mine used and they didn't even consider it

 

True enough, but this wasn't my first rodeo. My car sounded like a diesel whenever the engine was cold; it was not subtle. As it turns out, Brian Harris Mini service was reliably terrible for me (on my first oil service they overfilled by a quart). Also, I think the fact that the timing chain assembly in fact was self-destructing kind of vindicates my concerns when the noise first started. However, you have a point that maybe a lot of the dealers either didn't recognize that something was amiss, or assumed it was due to customer abuse. The former is just disappointing for a mark like BMW/MINI. The latter is not someone I am interested in doing business with.

One way of looking at it. However, once they looked and saw that the timing chain had destroyed the guides which were now in the oil pan, and knowing that the car was under warranty, with all services having been performed on time at a Mini dealer, and with no indication that the oil had ever been allowed to run low (it hadn't), I don't think of it as "lucky" that they covered it under warranty (it's pretty clearly covered) so much as I think I was lucky to find an honest dealer who prioritizes excellent service, since they could easily have looked the other way until after the warranty ended. If you are saying that most dealers would knowingly just keep quiet and let the customer take the hit, sadly I think you are right.

 

You guys should think yourselves lucky! In the UK BMW STILL wont admit liability. No recal has ever been done, even though its a known problem and they recomend the modified tensioner, they just dont want to know. It sucks big time.
The least problem ( thats known ) has to be battled out as a goodwill gesture....if, that is, BMW agree.
I love my MCS but the back up for known faults in the UK is a disgrace.
I'm just in the process of changing the Vanos solenoid AND the timing chain tensioner ( even though the whole timing chain assembly was replaced in december ) just to edge my bets, and hopefully get rid of the slight rattle thats present.
Love the forum guys. Lots of good advice and info too.

 

Thats what I'm afraid of, hense replacing the tensioner. Would really like to take a look at the top guide but dont have anywhere really to get that deep into it. ( flats with car park !)
Soooo, seeing that the garage who did my service mentioned the rattle ( though it didnt seem that bad to me ) I thought I would do the tensioner and see what the difference is.
As I said, the timing cassette assembly was changed in December though not sure it was genuine BMW parts or not. But £13.50+vat is cheaper than 3 or 4 grand for an engine!

 

Does anyone know if this problem exists in the 2012 JCW? i wasnt aware the 2012 JCW kept the n14 while the S for n18s until today kinda of boggles my mind they did that and i already put money down for the JCW. it has about 50k miles

 

Yes it is still a potential problem in the 2012 JCW with N14 engine. The chain tensioner assembly is the same as the S engines. And I think the N18s are also susceptible to the same issue, however it hasn't been reported as often as the N14s. I owned an 08 MCS for a while and the dealer did have to replace the tensioner once at around 50k miles but I drove it for another 30k with no recurring issues, only kept up on preventive maintenance like oil changes every 4-5k.

 

So I finally got my tensioner out, the book asks you to torque to Inc Lbs, who the hell as an inch lbs torque wrench. And it is like only 5.3 inch lbs... WTH???

Also from what I read here, if my slack is so much just replace, if not then put in a tension that is different than one you put on a new chain? 2007 Base n12 is what I have. Totally confused. I hope the tensioner replacement gets me rolling again. I, dont mind tearing it dow to the valve cover again if the rattle comes back and I need to do the whole chain.

Thanks,
2tallcurtis