My 2009 MCS has been in twice because of the death rattle. Nothing has ever helped. I put a quart of oil in it two weeks ago and it stopped rattling for about two days, now it is the worst its ever been. All these posts about busted engines is freaking me out.

 

It´s been 4 years now and there is no solution appart for a longer tensioner.

 

There si no solution. This engine is bad designed. I was told this by chief mechanic at Peugeot Argentina, who traveled many times to Peugeot France.
"may be in the next generetion engine" was the answer of Peugeot.
2012 Peugeot RCZ and the last Minis still have the issues and same engine.
Enjoy yours cars for about 2 years and then sell them.

 

You could get to work on creating your new metal. I bet a timing chain made out of that would not stretch out of specification.

 

+1 2008 MCS Tensioner replaced under warranty at 21,000 miles. Rattle returned at 38,000 and had to replace the entire Timing Chain assembly. I was 1.5 months out of warranty so MINI paid for all but $500 of the repair. They acted like they were doing me a favor by "only" charging me $500. I told them they should have fixed it correctly at 21,000 miles. MINI of Knoxville's answer was that they can't do anything else and that I need to talk to MINI USA.

 

Oh theres a solution and trust me its very executable, but @ whose cost? I can assure you it won't be @ BMWNA/MINIUSA's.

Chris Rock put it best, Its on the comebacks. Supplement the word medicine with engineering.

 

Bullet, there is no "correct" fix, yet. I believe an Accusump will significantly extend the life of the timing chain assembly, but nobody knows whether it will get it into the "acceptable" range. However, if that does really work, a check valve in the tensioner would as well to keep the tensioner from losing tension when the motor is not run for several hours.

I believe most of the wear occurs when you hear that "zing" on cold startup.

DOC

 

Funny you mention that because I specifically asked the dealer if the new timing assembly corrected the previous defect(s) and the tech said yes without hesitation. I found that funny because one side of the MINI USA mouth says there is not a defect and the other side of the mouth says that the defect has been fixed. Not very comforting to say the least. Then again this is the same MINI dealer that told me the best suspension mod for the buck that would improve handling the most was a front strut tower brace.

 

I have been contacted by an attorney in TN and we are proceeding with preliminary investigations into the class-action that I mentioned earlier. Its high time that this favoratism and unplausible deniability are over and done with. They need to either fix the design or commit to repairing each and every engine as it fails. This is a case of crap design, plain and simple, thats what you get when the French are hired to design your engines. I dont care who pays, they need to be fixing these right and stop making the customer suffer their $1700 to $2200 incompetent oooopps's. These aren't Yugos, they better get that into their heads.

 

AGAIN, the only change BMW has made is to offer a tensioner that has a longer travel "plunger". Otherwise, all the other timing related parts are the same. No other "updated" parts. The longer tensioner will control more slack than the original. However, this will only get you maybe 20k more miles than the original. Then the same thing happens, the cam gears slip a tooth or two and the motor is junk.

Timing chain systems have been around for 100 years and traditonally last at least 200K miles. The 207 (gas) system just does not last an acceptable length of time.

BTW, most of the 207s in France have a different motor (diesel), so they don't see very many of the failures we are seeing.

DOC

 

You would think Edelbrock could manufacture one. They would sell more of those then AMC V8 timing chains for sure..

 

Actually at some point, they also changed the chain. If you compare the part no on bmwetk.info and realoem.com you get two different numbers (the first newer than the latter).

The interesting thing is that from information I read on the web it appears the newer chains are actually longer than the old ones. This seems to contradict the purpose of the longer tensioner, which was however NEVER put on a factory vehicle.

If this is true, then the problem is not inadequate tension in the chain itself, but vibration of the chain and its natural frequency. Both tightening the chain and loosening it would alter its vibration behavior. It is similar to a guitar chord...

 

2008 Clubman S 85,000 miles. My engine blew last week. I had had the tensioner fixed a couple of years ago and the death rattle went away until about about a week before it blew up. I was going to take it in to have it looked at, but when I went to start it one day at lunch, I heard a "pop" then it wouldn't turn over. Had it into my independent mechanic, not the dealer since it is out of warranty (and they always find ways to overcharge). They found several broken valves and 2 damaged pistons, so far. They said it was obviously way out of time, but couldn't figure out why. They said the chain and the tensioner looked fine and they couldn't figure out why it slipped. So far, at least a new head and a couple of pistons.... Should I take it to the dealer to cover myself in case there is any legal action? BTW, I'm in Tennessee and would like to be kept up to date on the class action from the TN lawyer mentioned in post #584.

 

Peugeot 207, 208, 308, 508, RCZ, 3008, 5008.
Citroen DS3, DS4.
Minicooper S, JCW, Clubman, Coupe.

How can a probed bad engine could still be used (and planed to be used in the near future in new models to come...) is a mistery for me...

 

+1, 09 JCW. One month out of warranty and still under mileage.

Will update this post with what happens. Could be anywhere between $600 - $3800 according to the dealer. Was planning to buy a new GP but we'll see if Mini stands by it's brand after reading all the frustration from everyone here.


UPDATE: Mini covered everything under warranty and replaced the tensioner only.

 

What MINI Dealership are you taking it to in Northern California if you don't mind me asking?

 

and I thought I was alone, i had to replace my 07 mcs engine at 41k about two month after i got it Iand 1 month after the warranty was up was soo upset. it was a combination of the timing chain, vacum pump and previous owner not looking out for the car >:( I got it replaced with an 10 mcs engine with 8k on it paid all by an arm and a leg. All the mod i was going to do just went out the window. but so far so good for the last 5/6 month. and yes take it to the dealer! Also what class action case? Id like to know if i have a shot

 

Mini SF.

UPDATE: Mini covered everything under warranty and replaced the tensioner only, the chain was in spec.

 

I had the same issue last year around the holidays with my R56 (2007 49k miles). Got stranded out of state. Mini refused to cover any part of the cost even though they could look up and see the service was up to date and done at another Mini dealership and they agreed it was not from customer neglect. I was told by the dealership that I was an "orphan customer" and they could treat me anyway they wanted because I was not a local customer. Meaning that any complaints from me about their service would have no impact on their business. Mini USA stated that the dealerships are independently owned and they have no influence or sway over their behavior. The repairs cost over $7k and took 2 months to complete. The car has never run right since then. It's been back to the local dealership a few times since then and it's still runs like crap with a "new" engine. That experience was the definition of poor customer service from the out of state dealership, local dealership, and Mini USA. Count me in on the class action lawsuit. I like the car but this particular car's reliability has been absolutely abysmal and the service has been worse.

 

I apologize, but I did not notice/read anywhere if you stated that your vehicle was exhibiting cold start rattle noise sourcing from timing chain area (passenger side of engine)? If so, was it loud and noticeable even on start ups that weren't completely cold (per say allowing the vehicle to sit for 1-2 hours vs. a full 12 to 24 hours)?

I'm also curious if they inspected your upper timing chain guide for potential damage due to excessive slack. I have seen damage to the upper guide from excessive chain stretch that is still within what MINIUSA/BMWNA consider acceptable deflection measurement (like in your case where they only replaced the tensioner as it did not show excessive deflection that exceeded the maximum allowed spec).

Just wondering, if you know. If you don't, you can easily call your SA that assisted you @ SF MINI and ask them to read back the techs notes and see if they stated any form of visual inspection.

I'd say keep the above information in mind just in case you go another 5-10k miles and notice any rattle sounds return. If so, you can almost bet that the guide was damaged on the first round and the whole timing chain assembly probably should have been replaced from the start.

 

I don't know much about the engine changes made over the years, but is this engine with all these blow-ups happening the same engine that will be arriving in my 2013 JCW Coupe? If so, yikes! I hope I'm not buying a time bomb.

I know the engine in question is different than the one that was in my 2004 Cooper S, which I drove to 165k miles without anything weird.

 

I had my 2007 mcs engine replaced with a 2010 mcs.. Have anyone experienced this problem on a 2010 mini?

 

+1 2009 MCSa with 46k, timing chain and all associated parts being replaced under warranty. Also having a walnut blasting done under warranty to see if it improves throttle response. Will update on results when I pick the car up tomorrow.

 

Whats a walnut blasting?

 

carbon cleaning of the valves, they hook up machine that blasts the inside of the valves with crushed walnut shells (cleans the carbon but doesn't damage the valves).