Rockers knocking and a P00AA code, help? - North American Motoring


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Rockers knocking and a P00AA code, help?

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Old 11-05-2010, 07:57 AM
4Azdmunky 4Azdmunky is offline
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Rockers knocking and a P00AA code, help?

Hi All
I have an interesting issue going on with my wifes 07 cooperS. The problem started a couple months ago where the car started hunting and would stumble at idle. I figured ok, dirty injectors (@ 56K miles), ill run seafoam later. I cleaned the K&N filter, cleaned the MAF, issue was still present. Earlier this week she started the car, and it immediately started making a knocking noise in the cam area. I thought, ok, timing chain tensioner again. Pulled the valve cover, and the chain was fine. When I started the car the sound was coming from one of the HRLs on the front CAM around cylinder 3 or 4 (which ever one is driver side front). We called Mini, they said since its out of warranty, we would have to pay for towing (they are 30 miles away) and cost of repairs. ...grrr
I did some more digging around, and someone had posted on here that oil may be the issue. She was 2.5K away from an oil change, so I went ahead and changed the oil (Mobile1 0W30). The knocking is still present. I hooked up a OBDII scanner for [email protected], and noticed the even though I didnt have a CEL, there was a P00AA code being stored and It would immediately return after clearing. I then cleaned the IAT and the under hood cable connections, tried to reset the code and it immediately returned. The sensor is reading temperature (according to the OBDII reader, it was displaying a temperature), the engine is still knocking, hunting and stumbling at idle.

ok..back history done ....

Question1: Has anyone had this happen to them before? If so, what did they do to rectify the situation?

Question2: Could it be the MAF and not the IAT?

Question3: Is the knocking being caused by a bad sensor throwing timing out? (explaining the hunting and stumbling at idle)

Question4: Could the P00AA be a symptom of another issue? if so what and how would one check that out?


Thanks for any help or guidance.
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:29 AM
4Azdmunky 4Azdmunky is offline
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Well, I may need a new engine. It made a interesting clunk this morning and shut off. Does anyone know if I can use a N12 as a longblock for a N14? are the cams and valves the same?
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:57 PM
4Azdmunky 4Azdmunky is offline
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So..can I take a N12 from a 07 clubman and swap the turbo, exhaust manifold, intake manifold from my busted R56 engine and be good? Are there any differences in headflow or valves or anything like that?
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Old 11-06-2010, 04:27 PM
czar czar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Azdmunky View Post
Well, I may need a new engine. It made a interesting clunk this morning and shut off. Does anyone know if I can use a N12 as a longblock for a N14? are the cams and valves the same?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Azdmunky View Post
So..can I take a N12 from a 07 clubman and swap the turbo, exhaust manifold, intake manifold from my busted R56 engine and be good? Are there any differences in headflow or valves or anything like that?
In a short answer NO.

The N12 engine is completely different to the N14, the engine block may externally look the same, but that's as far as it goes.

They have completely different internals, the heads and valvetrain components are different too!

You will be best trying to identify the problem with your current N14 engine, it's relatively simple in it's build and component form, just think logically and work your way through, if you require further help, just ask the questions.
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:38 PM
56rfixr 56rfixr is offline
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I'd venture to say that your engine might not be toast. The noises you described and then the clunk no start make it sound like your vacuum pump locked up and caused the engine to skip time. an easy way to verify this, would be to pull the valve cover off, you will see that the exhaust cam gear is not attached anymore, also a couple of the lifters should be sitting in the head valley and not attached.

let us know what you find.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:15 AM
4Azdmunky 4Azdmunky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czar View Post
In a short answer NO.

The N12 engine is completely different to the N14, the engine block may externally look the same, but that's as far as it goes.

They have completely different internals, the heads and valvetrain components are different too!

You will be best trying to identify the problem with your current N14 engine, it's relatively simple in it's build and component form, just think logically and work your way through, if you require further help, just ask the questions.

Oh man that sucks. I was hoping to just swap manifolds and be back on the road....
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:25 AM
4Azdmunky 4Azdmunky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56rfixr View Post
I'd venture to say that your engine might not be toast. The noises you described and then the clunk no start make it sound like your vacuum pump locked up and caused the engine to skip time. an easy way to verify this, would be to pull the valve cover off, you will see that the exhaust cam gear is not attached anymore, also a couple of the lifters should be sitting in the head valley and not attached.

let us know what you find.
Update: Well things went from bad to worse. I pulled the plugs and found that the #4 plug was mangled. I replaced the plug (Couldnt find anything rattling around in the cylinder) , tried to restart. It fired then stalled. Pulled #4 and that plug was hit. I put a extra washer on another plug, put it in #4 (trying to just get it to fire to see if anything was rattling around), tried to start the car. The engine made a chunk/crack sound and siezed. The cams look fine, all of the valves look fine with the valve cover off, the timing chain doesnt "feel" loose, but it does "feel" like the timing is off when cranking. I think its time to pull the heads and see whats up with #4 cylinder. If its not all F'd up, then maybe I can get away with new timing chain tensioner and new vacuume pump (just in case).

..anyone know of a good longblock source for a N14/R56? Ebay has nothing.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:25 AM
czar czar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Azdmunky View Post
..anyone know of a good longblock source for a N14/R56? Ebay has nothing.
The Peugeot 207 GT and GTI, engine codes EP6DT and EP6DTS have the same engine too!

Check your local junk yards.

Don't give up hope, although I am in the UK, I have a whole host of stock engine components in my workshop (used) which maybe of use to you, if you can't find anything stateside.
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:55 PM
4Azdmunky 4Azdmunky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czar View Post
The Peugeot 207 GT and GTI, engine codes EP6DT and EP6DTS have the same engine too!

Check your local junk yards.

Don't give up hope, although I am in the UK, I have a whole host of stock engine components in my workshop (used) which maybe of use to you, if you can't find anything stateside.
Right on, thanks for pointing me in that direction. I am not looking forward to droppping $4800 on new crate engine from BMW for something that should not be breaking.... Thought German Engineering was supposed to be the shizznit.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:39 PM
56rfixr 56rfixr is offline
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can you crank it by hand? pull the plugs out and see if it will turn over by hand.

is the vacuum pump siezed, try pulling the vacuum pump off and try cranking it over to see if it will turn over wit hthat removed. 2007 cars had issues with the vacuum pumps anyway and with high milage it is a possibility.

i've only seen one engine sieze and it was flat towed behind an rv while in gear. it took out the engine, trans, 2 tires and the clutch.
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Old 11-10-2010, 07:14 AM
4Azdmunky 4Azdmunky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56rfixr View Post
can you crank it by hand? pull the plugs out and see if it will turn over by hand.

is the vacuum pump siezed, try pulling the vacuum pump off and try cranking it over to see if it will turn over wit hthat removed. 2007 cars had issues with the vacuum pumps anyway and with high milage it is a possibility.

i've only seen one engine sieze and it was flat towed behind an rv while in gear. it took out the engine, trans, 2 tires and the clutch.

Thanks!
I will try this as well. It snowed last night, so I didnt have a chance to try these steps. It is supposed to snow off and on until friday. Worse case, Ill try it this weekend, and report back.

Thanks again for the help.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:57 AM
4Azdmunky 4Azdmunky is offline
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Update
So I called Ralph Schomp since it really looked like a timing chain issue. They have been good to us with our other mini issues and helped me tow it in. The timing chain did jump teeth, something ate up the #4 cylinder (they scoped it) and the other pistons showed contact with the valves. Waiting now to hear what my options are. …. Fingers crossed…….
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:11 AM
MédéMazé MédéMazé is offline
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This is a WORLD CLASS ACTION : Please, Sign It here ( COOPER S R56 --> EP6 motor aka Prince et PEUGEOT/CITROËN --> EP6 motor THP- Turbo High Pressure)

http://www.action-collective.com/peu...tion-18253.htm

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=108738409151303


http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/01/...comment-856350
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:10 AM
MédéMazé MédéMazé is offline
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http://www.france-info.com/chronique...13-81-423.html --> It's a famous french radiomedia ( A RADIO FRANCE Channel)

Voici sa retranscription (il faudrait qu'un membre francophone puisse traduire s'il vous plait!)...En France , on commence à faire reconnaitre le phénomène..Nous nous battons pour nous faire entendre


A Jean Remy MACCHIA Chronicle:


Moteur à essence 1.6 de Peugeot-Citroën / Mini : souci de fiabilité:

Ce n’est pas une épidémie d’envergure, ni une hécatombe, comme a pu les connaître le moteur 1.5 dCi de Renault monté sur les Scénic et Grand Scénic de 2003-2004.
Mais on est quand même dans une certaine répétitivité de ce défaut technique, qui affecte le fonctionnement de ce moteur 1.6 essence.
Moteur que vous retrouvez sur des Citroën C3, C4, C5, DS 3, DS 4. Mais aussi des Peugeot 207, 308, 3008, 508, 5008. Ainsi que sur toute la gamme des Mini.
Que se passe-t-il sur ce moteur ?
Un souci sur la chaîne de distribution. La chaîne métallique de distribution, c’est justement un choix technique qui est adopté, à la place d’une courroie en caoutchouc, pour éviter tout risque de rupture. Et c’est un élément qui est censé tenir toute la vie de la voiture, sans risque ni entretien particulier.
Sur ce moteur moderne, sorti en 2006, il y a, justement, un souci sur le tendeur hydraulique de la chaîne de distribution.
D’abord, vous entendez un bruit métallique. Surtout à froid, au démarrage. Au début, ce bruit disparaît lorsque le moteur monte en température.
Là, normalement, il faut déjà être alerté. Et consulter un représentant de la marque.
Sinon, les soucis peuvent être plus importants… ?
Exactement. Sinon, ce bruit au démarrage s’amplifie. Avec des claquements qui persistent une fois que le moteur est chaud.
Là, vous avez un moteur dont la chaîne de distribution est mal calée. Ce qui dérègle le rythme de levée des soupapes
Au final, vous avez un moteur qui fonctionne de moins en moins bien – avec des pertes de puissance. Et les choses peuvent aller plus loin.
D’abord, une forte usure de la chaîne de distribution. Qu’il faudra changer. Mais ce n’est pas le plus grave.
Il y a un risque de casse moteur. Risque pas très élevé. Mais c’est arrivé à Frédéric, sur sa 207.
Comment réagissent les constructeurs concernés ?
C’est-à-dire Citroën, Peugeot et BMW – sur sa marque Mini. D’abord, ils minimisent l’étendue du problème. Même si les casses moteur ne sont pas très fréquentes, elles surviennent quand même sur quelques voitures – notamment celles où ce moteur est couplé à un turbo. Par exemple sur des Citroën ou Peugeot « THP » et les Mini Cooper S.
En usine, ce tendeur de chaîne qui a été à l’origine de tous ces soucis, a été modifié en 2010.
En après-vente, les attitudes diffèrent entre les trois marques.
Le remplacement du tendeur revient à 180-200 €.
Le remplacement de la chaîne coûte de 700 à 950 €. Et toutes ces opérations « curatives » ne sont prises en charge que partiellement par les marques. Et encore, après des demandes insistantes auprès des services après-vente.
Et les prises en charge, lorsqu’il y a un moteur à changer, ne sont que partielles.

Podcast --> http://rf.proxycast.org/m/media/242042201424/c=information/p=La+pratique+de+l%27auto_11580/l3=20110509/l4=/http://media.radiofrance-podcast.net/podcast09/11580-09.05.2011-ITEMA_20284426-0.mp3
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