So last week I noticed water in my fog light about 1/3 of it was filled with water. I opened the back and realized the bulb was also broken so I took out the bulb connector and put the cover back on. I took my car to the dealer today so they can check it out. They told me my warranty was voided on the fog light because I took the bulb out and that is what caused the water to enter the fog light assembly....I think this is total BS but I was wondering if they have a valid point? I haven't paid for any service since they are going to call me with a price.

Thanks!

 

What dealer? I think thats bogus... I would talk to the service manager or the dealership general manager.

 

Westchester MINI... The SA ended up saying he was going to try his best to put it through warranty but he would let me know later if it is going to be covered or not.

 

+1

 

Yea thanks they ended up covering it under warranty.

 

I'd like to hear the explanation from the service advisor as to how a missing bulb would have allowed water to enter the housing.

You hear some pretty amazing stories about dishonest dealers here on NAM!

 

I asked the same thing! All he said was well once you removed the broken bulb you voided the warranty on the part. Fortunately they realized there story wasn't going to work anyway lol

 

Dealers and service departments like that give Mini/BMW a bad name; disgusting...

 

Perhaps you could explain what makes dealers who question the validity of warranty work "dishonest"? Stupid maybe, but I question dishonest.

Dealers are paid by Mini for the work they do, not for work they don't do. If they refuse the repair under warranty, they do not get a bonus nor do they save any money. The warranty and payment for repairs is from Mini...not the dealer.

On the other hand, if they work on and replace parts under warranty, Mini can refuse payment to the dealer after they review the repair documentation. In this case, Mini can request any defective parts replaced before payment is final. They do this regularly to ascertain failure causes and often to return these failed parts to the supplier for credit. If the part has been removed, obviously it cannot be returned or if still present but not installed, it is difficult to verify it came from the same car being repaired.

Dealers are guilty of a lot of things but not doing warranty work is not often one of them. They have nothing to gain by refusing work and often much to lose. We as consumers need to understand they are trying to protect their payment and we need to help give them ways to met their obligations.

 

From Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: dis·hon·est
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)dis-ˈä-nəst also (ˌ)diz-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French deshoneste, from des- dis- + honeste honest
Date: 14th century
1 obsolete : shameful, unchaste
2 : characterized by lack of truth, honesty, or trustworthiness : unfair, deceptive


Very True

In this case the actual defective part that the OP complained about (fog light housing) was still in the car. So your argument that the part was removed is invalid. There should have been no question as to the possible warranty repair.

Now if the fog light housing had been removed by the OP then there may be a cause for denial but that is strictly not the case, but it was not.

So in this case the the OP stated "They told me my warranty was voided on the fog light because I took the bulb out and that is what caused the water to enter the fog light assembly... ". As I see it the dealer told the OP warranty void because he took the bulb out and that caused the leak.

Not only is that not "truthful", and not "honest", it is very "untrustworthy".

Well low and behold those are the exact definition of dishonest. As posted directly from the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary.

So as I see it the dealer was "dishonest" and Yes there are many dealers that do this.

Very True, but when it comes to the customer they should also know "The Customer Is Always Right Until Proven Otherwise" and even then the customer is always right. It is bad for business to deny warranty claims based on a lie.

Thankfully the dealer came around and is fixing the problem.

Now as for this dealer, I would be very reluctant to do business with them based on this report. I know my dealer has never told me straight out that they will not cover something under warranty. They will always check and recheck the problem before making any sort of comment about any work the will be doing.

 

If we were to argue minutia, the bulb being absent would preclude any successful repair regardless of problem with the adjoining parts. Warranty payment would require a defective part regardless of the underlying cause, in this case the assembly itself.

Dishonesty, as used in your example, implies actions of an untrue manner for the gain of the dealership. Obviously not the case. As I mentioned, potentially though, stupid!

"The customer is always right!" An inane slogan originally penned by a desperate Department Store owner in England in 1909. Anyone who has ever worked a single day in retail knows just how absurd this statement is. Consumers, when wrong, do though love the idea!

 

No where does it state in the dictionary that dishonesty has to do with gain. It only states "characterized by lack of truth, honesty, or trustworthiness". I see nothing in there that states anything about gain so whether the dealership lost or gained on this action does not make a bit of difference. It is straight out lying to the customer that the problem was caused by the bulb being removed. We all know that this is not true. The fog light assembly whether there is a bulb in it of not should not have water in it. So straight out lie from the dealer means the following:

They did not tell the truth - part #1 of the definition

They were not honest - part #2 of the definition

They were not trustworthy - part # 3 of the definition

So with being wrong on all three parts the dealership was still dishonest with or with out any loss or gain.

But yes it was very stupid of them. That I will agree with.

 

Why would that be? The problem was a leaking fog light housing assembly. Not a blown out bulb. The housing should not leak whether a bulb is present or not.

 

Just because the original statement was incorrect does not mean it was a lie or dishonest.

 

Well as I see it in this case (and of course I could be wrong, I was not there) my opinion is that to tell someone their warranty is void because the bulb was missing and caused the water to leak in is something that the SA should know better about. I mean obviously the bulb could not have caused the problem and the SA knew very well that the bulb missing did not cause the housing to leak so why did the SA say it did.

So if the statement from the OP about what the dealer stated is true. Then the dealership did at least two of the definitions below:

1. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression

and

2. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.


Or as the Merriam Webster Dictionary states:

lie(l)n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

v. lied, ly·ing (lng), lies
v.intr.1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

v.tr. To cause to be in a specific condition or affect in a specific way by telling falsehoods: You have lied yourself into trouble.

 

I tried to resist entering this silly argument, but couldn't help noticing my favorite technicality of all. In Miniclubman's post, which you quoted, Jacad, he doesn't ever say this specific dealer was dishonest; he says "you hear some pretty amazing stories about dishonest dealers here on NAM". Miniclubman never actuallysaid anything "makes dealers who question the validity of warranty work "dishonest"". So you and Schatzy62 can stop bickering.

 

I take it back. All MINI dealers and service advisors are always honest and forthright when judging whether a repair under warranty is valid.

I state this despite the hundreds of examples presented on NAM to the contrary, and despite the often dubious and sometimes laughable dealer explanations as to why a warranty claim is denied.

I see you've recently joined NAM. Welcome, and I encourage you to peruse the problems / issues threads. You'll find many examples of dishonest MINI owners trying to pull a fast one on the forthright dealers and service advisors.

The long threads on the "cold start chatter" and "carbon buildup" issues with the turbo engine may be particularly enlightening.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I strongly believe that the OP's dealer was being dishonest, and was deliberatly attempting to avoid a waranty repair.

I regret not making my opinion clear in my first post.

 

LOL, no worries. I knew what you meant; I just couldn't continue to resist throwing one more technicality into the mix...

 

Now that we have all had so much fun quoting the dictionary and arguing semantics, the primary original question still remains.

My sole point is,there is no reasonable agenda served for any dealer to refuse legitimate warranty repair. Actually, the opposite is true. No work, no pay, and an unhappy customer. When a dealer does refuse warranty, at least in his mind, he has a good reason to think his investment in time and parts is in jeopardy when MINI reviews the repair for payment.

Do not be mistaken that every service adviser knows everything there is to know about the mechanics of the vehicle, the repair, and how warranty is interpreted. They do not and they are in the wrong often. Being a service adviser is neither highly critical work nor does it lead to high six-figure incomes. It is highly intensive knowledge wise and very stressful when dealing with people daily who are usually only there because their toy is broken and the possibility of spending money is attached.

If warranty coverage is in doubt, the customer has options. Ask to speak with the Service Manager for a better explanation. If still not satisfied, ask for the General Manager or the Owner.