I am one of the first people to post the stumble issue with the software on this site. I also had 2 upgrades to no avail. I almost got hit in the back 4 times in the last month of ownership. I am glad I sold this car at its peak resale value becuae this issue will become public soon through the NHSTA. Resale values will drop like mad, when the word finally starts to get out via word of mouth....... but most importantly I hope no one gets killed with this problem.

Pulling out in traffic was such an adventure with this issue, as you never knew when it was going to occur. Basically with AC on turning onto roads under hard acceleration to blend into traffic. I had to pull over twice as the engine did not "catch" as soon as needed. What a mess, as I loved the car for all the right reasons.......15,546 miles later..........super disappointment.......only bright spot is that I bought a better car with the money that was preserved in value by this trendy MINI car which is really going to be just a fad. Oh well......live and learn.....fast....

 

In better days.......first day of delivery.........and now my last post........on MCO.......Ciao to all MINI enthusiasts.................

 

Sorry andrew
Don't know what the real problems is because I already have about 25,00 miles on the MINI and no real problems at all..

Anyway Good luck with your new car

 

Fad? yeah right! The "MINI" fad as you call it has lasted 44 years and still counting.... Resale value will remain strong for a very long time friend. Trust me.

Anyway sorry about your issues and best of luck with whatever you choose next.


Hasta la vista.

 

Oh and no stumbling, hesitation or stalling issues...nothing, nada, zero, zilch, zip!

My '02 Cooper CVT with 14K+ miles runs Turbine smooth with the precision of the finest Swiss watch!

 

<<Resale values will drop like mad, when the word finally starts to get out via word of mouth....... but most importantly I hope no one gets killed with this problem.>>

Hey man, I hear ya an all that, but I'm just wondering what the buyer said when you told him he was buying a deathtrap. Oh, you didn't? Well at least you got good money out of him.

Ken

 

I'm always amazed at the people who have problems with the MINI and who have decided to sell the car because of certain problems, FEEL THE NEED to get on the MCO ENTHUSIASTS SITE and tell the members of their bad fortunes.

It goes back to that old saying that MISERY LOVES COMPANY. They want EVERYONE to know how unhappy they are with their car. SORRY you got a car that did not live up to your expectations, but that's life.

I had a Lexus that I owned and it was in the shop way more than the average Lexus. I wound up selling the car, but I did not get on the LEXUS SITE and bad mouth the car. Why, because I knew that most of the Lexus cars are very good when it comes to quality. DARN IT, I JUST DIDN'T GET ONE

So I decided to sell it and get something else. It's just a car. What good would it do for me to get on the LEXUS site and bad mouth the car???

I figured that if I did get on the LEXUS site and gripe and gritch about my car, it probably would make ME FEEL BETTER and I think it probably makes Andrew FEEL BETTER also.

 

>>I'm always amazed at the people who have problems with the MINI and who have decided to sell the car because of certain problems, FEEL THE NEED to get on the MCO ENTHUSIASTS SITE and tell the members of their bad fortunes.
>>
>>It goes back to that old saying that MISERY LOVES COMPANY. They want EVERYONE to know how unhappy they are with their car. SORRY you got a car that did not live up to your expectations, but that's life.
>>
>>I had a Lexus that I owned and it was in the shop way more than the average Lexus. I wound up selling the car, but I did not get on the LEXUS SITE and bad mouth the car. Why, because I knew that most of the Lexus cars are very good when it comes to quality. DARN IT, I JUST DIDN'T GET ONE
>>
>>So I decided to sell it and get something else. It's just a car. What good would it do for me to get on the LEXUS site and bad mouth the car???
>>
>>I figured that if I did get on the LEXUS site and gripe and gritch about my car, it probably would make ME FEEL BETTER and I think it probably makes Andrew FEEL BETTER also.


_________________
'03 S DS

 

When you've got problems, it must seem that the whole world has problems.

God speed.

 

Well, your theory about selling before NHTSA makes this a big safety issue is pretty valid, except for one thing: this problem is going to be fixed soon, and then we'll all have great cars, and you'll be sad and MINIless.

The stumble didn't always exist, which means it can be made to go away, and the word on the street is that the software to fix the stumble *may* already be out now. Also, it sounds like your problems may have been specific to your car. I've never heard anyone else saying that they "had to pull over twice as the engine did not "catch" as soon as needed" due to a stumble -- that's pretty wild. My MCS can be jerky and annoying when accelerating from a stop, but nothing that is going to get me hit, much less killed.

Good luck with your choice, and I hope you are happier with your next car.

Maxwell

 

Chitown_COOP

I presume Andrew was referring to the "Bog" - I'm surprised you didn't recognize it from the description - or maybe you have not experienced it - many have described this condition and how dangerous it is on the forums.

 

Tokio,

That's what it sounded like to me too, but I didn't want to correct someone else's terminology. I used to experience the bog in my Cooper, but I really haven't had issues with it in my S--either the tendencies aren't as strong in my S, or I've gotten some sort of clutch/acceleration technique that has effectively gotten rid of it. Has the Bog (or the Stumble) every caused you to pull over because your engine didn't catch?

 

At the risk of getting crucified, I think a lot of the “stumble” issue has to do with driver ability. My ’03 MCS has a definite ‘catch’ when accelerating in first gear… hard acceleration or normal. By this I mean there is a definite point where the acceleration cuts out (or is held back by s/w?) when starting off from a standstill or near stop. I’ve heard the stumble described many different ways, but think what I experience probably qualifies.

I’ve resolved my ‘stumble’ issue by a) turning off the DSC almost always; b) spending some time paying close attention to relationship of clutch let-off & throttle position relative to the stumble. By doing so, you can easily ‘drive thru’ the stumble without a problem.

I’ve also noticed that with DSC the problem is MUCH less pronounced to almost non-existent. My MCS seems much more loose and easy to throw around with the DSC off… almost as if it were two different cars (split personality disorder!).

The Mini is a performance oriented vehicle. Most performance vehicles have some eccentricities and a learning curve associated with driving them well. Spend some time really getting to know your Mini and you will learn how the car responds in any given condition & in turn how you should respond.

If you want a vehicle that will give you a homogenous driving ‘experience’ get a Honda.

 

>>Tokio,
>>
>>That's what it sounded like to me too, but I didn't want to correct someone else's terminology. :smile: )

On all occasions it was entering traffic with haste and definately nothing to do with DSC. No, I wasn't hit but very nearly and I wouldn't wish this problem on my worst enemy.

Having said that I wish the likes of D.J. and Coopers4us could experience it for a month or so just so they can comment with some knowledge on the subject or even just so they know how it feels to know they invested $27,000 in a car that repeatedly tries to kill them and the manufacturer wants nothing to do with.

SpeedyVa,

Yes, If I was a Roman I would crucify you - driven stick for 25 years - NOTHING to do with driver ability.

_________________
'03 S DS

 

The issue with having to pull over twice because the engine didn't catch may have been the result of something completely unrelated to the ubiquitous stumble. We had a guy in our club who complained about the engine cutting out as described in this thread and the fix he ended up getting involved replacing the fly by wire stuff in the throttle and MINI also had to replace the wiring harnass.

Just my $.02

 

capsaicinmini,

You may well be right.

Unfortunately the intermittent nature of the problem and the other issues assosciated with the software (variable yoyo, stumble) as well as BMWs lack of any worthwhile fix has the service agents turning people away in the belief that they have no fix and it's not worth investigating.

_________________
'03 S DS

 

Forgive my ignorance, but how widespread is this 'stumble' problem? I am planning on buying an 04 MC with CVT, and havent seen anything on the NHTSA web site regarding an investigation. The only problem with 'stalling' was the CVT transmission problem. Is this 'stumble' thing something I should be concerned about, when buying my 04 MC?

 

Andrew! I'm sorry to hear about what happened...but good luck with the new car.

STAY IN TOUCH!

 

Raider, welcome to MCO! :smile:

Stumble - a problem unique to certain MCS. Car "stumbles" at launch when rpms are around 3K. Varies in degree of intensity and frequency of occurence. On some cars it's mild. On others it's harsh enough to be described as like "hitting a brick wall." Not every car has it at all. BMW is working on a software fix.

Stalling - a particular problem with CVT Coopers. Also related to "shaking" and vibrating at idle. Reportedly fixed on new production (mid to late 2003) cars, and via software upgrade to earlier cars. Again, only a CVT problem.

Yo-Yo -- a sort of "hesitation" experienced in the lower half of the RPM range...generally in 2nd gear. Also software related (probably). Seems to happen mostly to MCS, but also possibly regular Coopers. Not every car has it. BMW is working on a software fix.

Bog -- low, or a reduction, of torque below 3K rpm, usually experienced at launch. Seems to be more common in Coopers than MCS, but could happen in either. Not every car has it. Seems to be software related and may be related to throttle and/or traction control systems. Software fix (not done yet) is supposed to address. But some owners report that lightening the car (e.g., lighter wheels/tires), adding an intake, adding the pulley mod, or other performance enhancements help. Also helped by turning off DSC (if you car has it).

Otherwise, do a thread search. There's LOTS of info on this on MCO. Enjoy...

 

>>Forgive my ignorance, but how widespread is this 'stumble' problem? I am planning on buying an 04 MC with CVT, and havent seen anything on the NHTSA web site regarding an investigation. The only problem with 'stalling' was the CVT transmission problem. Is this 'stumble' thing something I should be concerned about, when buying my 04 MC?

It depends on who you talk to. I have experienced it but I have learned how to cope with it. Now I can only speak of the 6 speed S. I do not know about the CVT, I believe they have corrected the problem for the CVT but it remains in manual engines. I was posted in another thread.

 

SpeedyVa.... unlike Tokio, I don't even need to be Roman to crucify you--all I need is your whereabouts and a few logs and I'd be more than happy. Clearly you haven't investigated the "stumble" threads--and why should you if you're perfectly happy with your car?--but this thread represents just the teeniest portion of the problem. Trust us (or don't), this problem has absolutely NOTHING to do with driver error--unless, of course, you consider that all of us were perfectly competant until one magical mystical night when we dropped our cars off at the dealership for a software upgrade to fix a cold-start problem. I suppose that, by your reasoning, the stupid fairy and his stick visited us all and beat us until we forgot how to drive our cars.

Raider... check out "Beaneath the Bonnet" forum, "stumble" thread. You will find more pages of information on symptomology/prevalence/theories/corrective measures than you'd ever care to read.

_________________

 

>>At the risk of getting crucified, I think a lot of the “stumble” issue has to do with driver ability. >>

Believe me (us), we wish your theory was correct. But it is a know issue. MINI has acknowledged the issue (but sometimes they act dumb and say there is no problem). Maybe your car does not have the stumble...If you were to drive a car with the stumble, it would become very obvious to you. I currently have all of the symptoms==stumble, yo-yo, cold start stall, and the bog. Trust me, It is sometimes a challenge to drive my car!
:???:

 

Geez, I didn't want to jump back in here, but I guess I have to.

This is just the sort of hysteria that made me post in this thread in the first place. No, the problems really aren't severe enough that you should reconsider ordering your car. If you've test driven a CVT for a reasonable length of time, and if you like the way it drives then go ahead. You'll be glad you did. This Stumble issue (IN MY OPINION!!!) is not enough reason for anyone to worry about buying a MINI. I love my car, and I have been very vocal about the Stumble and it's annoyance to me in the past, but I have gotten a little annoyed lately over all of the "hysteria" surrounding it.

Furthermore, you know you my girl, Toast, but I wish that no crucifixions were necessary. I think SpeedyVA mis-typed when he used the term "driver ability"--I agree with him that the Stumble is made more *manageable* with increased driver diligence, but not that it can be made to disappear. I also think that some people definitely have it worse than others, perhaps to the point where it's not even remotely manageable. But I can't speak for others. I know how my Stumble manifests itself, and I have found that with a slower clutch action and more attentive throttle that I can drastically minimize the Stumble (more than likely to the great detriment of my clutch's longevity!). I *think* that that was what SpeedyVA was getting at, but that was just my take on it. I am also intensely aware of people's feelings when they are told that the Stumble is "their fault" because they "don't know how to drive stick" or whatever. I hate hearing people without Stumble issues tell us Stumblers that we must be doing something wrong. (Just look at all of my past grumpy responses to Minihune's cheerful refrains of "nothing wrong with my MCS!&quot

So my point (I swear there is one!) is that the Stumble itself is not a life-threatening issue, although I am aware that certain other possibly software OR mechanically-related issues may in fact be dangerous (although it's my personal opinion that most of these are DSC related), and furthermore that some driver input MAY make the Stumble LESS of an issue, though it certainly won't eliminate it by any means. And, finally, although BMW has been far less than insightful throughout this Stumble ordeal, I honestly (naively?) believe that they want to get rid of this issue so that they can sell more cars in the future, and are therefore diligently working on a fix that will eventually make our MINIs run like Ferraris (more or less ).

But all of this is just my (long-winded, parentheses-filled) two cents.

 

>>At the risk of getting crucified, I think a lot of the “stumble” issue has to do with driver ability.

Prepare to be crucified then! :smile:

So selling your car at this point seems stupid, and then hoping that everyone else suffers is just childish, IMHO.

Chris.

 

Chitown,

I wonder what BMW say when you go in to get that clutch (that is not covered under warranty) fixed?

I have driven with DSC on and pushed the car to it's limits inducing DSC intervention - the DSC effect is nothing like the "Bog".

_________________
'03 S DS