just a quick question. If I paid close to $950 for the service related to this very issue, and you deem it to be a mechanical failure, when can I expect my refund?

 

Seems to be a problem with all late model Cooper S vehicles, not just some. Have your technicians ever pulled the intake off a 2nd gen "S" with 30k, and not found carbon built up?

 

Well then, MINI of Mountain View CA never got that memo. See post #252....

 

 

Mr/Ms/whatever MiniDivision:

I am glad you came out and identified yourself as an BMW/Mini rep (if you are!!) and not lurk as an shill, as that would have been a very shameful. I feel that manufacturers visiting the community to get a pulse on things is definitely a win win situation for everyone. Provided the feedback/issues being raised/discussed by Mini community makes it to the right channels in the BMW/Mini corporation. Please do visit us more often and participate but make it more of a productive two way discussion and not a preachers monologue.

 

They are. BMW/MINI Headquarters out of Woodcliff Lake - NJ. Acutally about 5 miles from where I grew up

I get a sense they have some sort of software manual with boiler plate solutions for our concerns and therefore help out here more in a customer service capacity than tech support.

 

Does anyone know if local stores such as AutoZone, Pep Boys, etc carry

?

Or do I have to buy it from a BMW dealer?

 

If you buy the Mini/BMW stuff, the dealers are the only ones that carry it.

Otherwise, you could use the Techron stuff, they make the cleaner for BMW. You can get those from Pep Boys, Advance Auto, Autozone etc.

I have had great luck with Redline SL1.

 

and they all pretty much work the same. It's just a choice of who's kids you're gonna send to college on the profit.

Matt

 

I have a 2008 MCS with 53,000 miles on it. Did all the OBC required maintenance. Even asked the SA if I should do any maintenance on my own and was advised that the OBC will tell me when and what. I brought my car in b/c it would make a noise and hesitate when accelerating...usually uphill. It did it about a year after I had the car. I thought it was a fluke. Then it repeated it recently at the same incline on the highway accelerating about 70 mph. The engine stuttered and made noise. I took it in and like everyone has said the SA could not "duplicate" the problem. It had 49,996 miles on it. I had it towed in so it would not go over the 50K mark. I took it home and it occurred on the side street after coming back from a road trip...now the engine light is on. Of course now that there is a light on the car and it's out of warranty, the SA is telling me (a different dealer now...I don't trust the first one) that it will be 750.00 to clean out the carbon build-up. Do I call MiniUSA first? Get a lawyer? I can't believe that all I can expect is 50K out of this car...have done all maintenance AND it's still not all paid for yet.

 

Do the SeaFoam treatment twice through the PCV system. You probably have huge carbon deposits on the intake valves. That should clean out the carbon. Follow the instructions posted on this forum. it is not difficult to do.
Then drive a few days and see if the check engine light goes off.

Also, there are many independent facilities that will do a carbon clean for a lot less than $750! That is price insane. Usually it costs $75 to $150. If you do not want to do it yourself look for an independent BMW shop as many of them also work on MINIs. Find a BMW forum and see what local shops they recommend.

You may not have enough for a lemon law legal action, but it varies greatly in each state. Usually it is 3 failed repair attempts. I doubt MINI USA will give you a free service for what is considered a maintenance item. However, it never hurts to complain to the home office since you are just out of warranty and have record that the issue/complaint existed before the warranty expired, that may be good enough to twist their arm for free extended warranty coverage under threat of a possible lemon action. Google lemon law and your state to determine what type of lemon law it has.

 

Thanks clutchless. I went into the Dealer today with all my backup and facts and they have agreed to cover this as a warranty issue. I spoke to the SM this time and he wouldn't come out and say "on the record", but he did acknowledge that this is a problem. He would fix it and clean everything, new oil and O2 sensor...but of course could not guarantee anything about future problems....Could not even recommend what I could do on my own that could prevent the problem. I guess I will see how it runs when I get it back and do what you are suggesting here and have it cleaned with the Seafoam myself. I think everyone on this site should contact Customer Relations for Mini and report it that way there is a record that can't run away from. Maybe then the engineers will be forced to address the issue.

 

That is great the dealer came through to help resolve this quickly. If you just do the SeaFoam treatment a few days before each oil change, you should not have this issue again. Around page 10 of this thread I posted a link to the SeaFoam procedure instructions thread.

I think the MINI OBC oil change intervals are way too long and should be cut in half. Notice how when car manufacturers started offering free maintenance that the maintenance intervals then became twice as long as before that policy began? MINI/BMW (any car company) only care if your car lasts as long as the warranty. Once that is over, you are on your own. I have always done and preached to others to perform more preventive maintenance and change your fluids more often than the manufacterers prescribe and your car will last hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

yes they do.

 

As anyone who's seen me post knows...I'm a huge proponent of using SeaFoam on these cars.

I've begun thinking though, is it possible to use SeaFoam too often? Are there any consequences for using it very often, say every 3-5k miles? I know OXYBLUECOOP uses it about every 5k if I remember...and its seeming like thats about how often I do it too, so it got me wondering how much is too much......

Trying to troubleshoot some things on my car, and I feel it needs another SeaFoaming....but I just did it like 3k miles ago lol (was only a single treatment though)

 

i just did mine again after waiting about 4K, and got a damned CEL.... Been 2 days so far.

Tried the battery disconnect for an hour or so, and next im going to have to see if Advance Auto or someone can clear whatever it is.

I think i revved it to hard while sputtering, and maybe got a misfire code :(

EDIT: Must take about 200 miles, or 3 days. Went off today

It was like the gas light came on, since im low, and the CEL went off lol.

 

Fact: our French built engines love to sip only the finest of fuels. Too bad that the fuel quality in the US is not quite up to these engines' standards (damn French). I wonder if the Peugeots are experiencing the same issues? If not, then its a fuel quality issue in the US. If they are, then its just a poor quality engine. I have pampered my R56 and only put 93 octane in it and changed the oil every 7500. I Have had issues with cold start, rough idle, loss of power, check engine lights, 4 timing chains replaced, main seal replaced, etc..., ever since i took delivery in 2007. I just finally forced the dealer to do a carbon check and yup, there was carbon build up on all 4 cylinders (especially 3 and 4). At 45k they finally looked inside the engine and not relied on what the ECU was telling them. After the cleaning, its like i have a completely different car! Smooth acceleration, power is back, smooth idle, no noises. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY AN ISSUE MINI AND BMW DO NOT WANT TO ADDRESS BECAUSE IT IS COSTLY AND LABOR INTENSIVE. Everyone that owns a mini do yourselves a favor and demand to get your engines checked and cleaned of carbon before you warrantee expires.

 

What did you have to do to get them to look inside?

I have VERY close ties to my dealer, and they know me well...but trying to get them to do things is driving me crazy. They won't touch the car unless there is a visible CEL, or its in limp mode, or its flat out broken. I'm getting frustrated with this car...REAL frustrated. To the point where I want to trade it for an R53, those motors actually work right. I'm pretty convinced there are a couple issues with my car...among them, the typical carbon issues and high pressure fuel pump issues. I merely wanted them to test my fuel pump and check the pressure its putting out, but they won't unless it throws a code. Claiming, "every HPFP failure we've had has thrown a code." While I'm sure that's very true...its most likely because 99.5% of MINI drivers are clueless and not receptive to what the car is telling them. So they most likely won't notice the subtle symptoms leading up to the point when the pump completely fails. Same thing goes for the carbon issues...they won't look at it until it starts throwing codes, even though I'm certain it's an issue.

I don't blame this on my dealer either. I blame it on BMW/MINI. The dealer needs to pay its tech to diagnose/fix the cars as well as pay for parts...so the money for that is either coming from MINI, the customer, or they are stuck footing the bill themselves. So, if MINI won't pay to replace stuff unless it has completely failed...the dealer sure as hell isn't going to be footing the bill for every car that comes in. The dealer is seemingly stuck between a rock and a hard place with this crap. MINI won't pay them to replace things that need to be replaced or fixed, because as you said, it's too costly to them. They only need to be financially responsible for the car up until 50k, and then they can almost care less what happens to these cars. An with almost 44k miles...my time is coming up.

 

People, protect yourselves with evidence. Keep complaining, keep scheduling appointments and show the service dept what's wrong with your vehicles. I took video of my engine making awful noises literally the day after they "fixed" my problem with yet another timing chain. I think that was key to getting them to actually do something. I had proof! I believe that my timing was being thown off due to the build up and they just kept doing what the ECU what saying. To clean my carbon took my dealer six business days. I got a loaner so no issue there, but you see the labor and wait for parts is costly service to mini.

As far as fuel pumps go, there are no sensors on fuel pumps. You'll have to wait for a sensor elsewhere in the engine/exhaust (ex: engine too lean) to trigger before they can think about looking into the fuel pumps. Yet again, this is a costly check and replacement to mini.

 

They can test the pressure that it is putting out. The first time mine failed it did not fail completely, and when I brought it in, surprise, no check engine lights. But the night before, it went into limp mode as it was idling at a stop light...and I snapped a picture of the engine light on the tach. Of course it went away after I restarted, and no further lights were illuminated, and it drove ok. I promise you, had I not taken the photo, they would not have investigated further like they did. Upon testing, they discovered that it was only putting out half the pressure it should have been.

And shockingly, here we are almost a year later, and its beginning to do the same things it did before.

And you should hear how badly it's pinging/detonating. Between carbon build up and a failing fuel pump, I think I have the recipe for horrible detonation. Not very comforting noise as you are approaching the end of your warranty you know?

It's going to dealer #2 tomorrow and I'm insisting they go for a drive with me to hear it/feel it. I already know the excuse I'm going to get:

Do you have software on this car?
-Nope, stock tune/software
Oh, you must have a tank of bad gas.

 

Psst… my boroscope came today.

 

Can I use it? lol

Don't you live around here somewhere?

 

I'm down in Tucson.

But I'm coming up soon to pick up some tweeters, and I'll be up at the end of the month for the UofA/ASU hockey games, so the girlfriend and I will have the whole day that Saturday to find something to do up there.

Not sure what all is involved with pulling the intake manifold, though. I imagine at the very least you'd have to have a new gasket on hand, but that's just a guess.

 

Do the Seafoam at least before every oil change. I add Renewable Lube Bio-Plus gas conditioner to my gas on a preventive basis, although as a direct injection motor, it does not do much on the intake valves, I feel every bit helps. About an ounce every tank for maintenance, more for clean up, it meets BMW standards, increases the additive package to reduce carbon build up, help remove carbon and deposits and lubricate the injectors. A gallon lasts over a year for me.

http://www.renewablelube.com/pdf/2I-...onditioner.pdf

 

Some before and after pics with the borescope will be very interesting when they are available