This is just an FYI post to let those with the stumble issue know that lemon law protection expires soon after taking ownership of a new car. It varies from state to state, but many states allow the lemon law protection to expire 1 year after you take ownership or 12,000 miles. And keep in mind that it takes some time to proceed with lemon law protection.

There are plenty of MINI's that do not stumble, so I see no reason to have to deal with a faulty car for an extended period of time while MINI figures out a fix for a car that never should have left the factory with the stumble issue in the first place. Most automobile manufacturers call it quality control/quality assurance.

Here is some info for those who may like to take the lemon law route before it is too late:
http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_Lemon2.html

Best regards to everyone with this issue,
JS

 

Thanks for the leg work, JS. I checked the site you gave in your posting and found that in Pennsylvania a lemon law complaint must be filed before 12 months and
12,000 miles have elapsed. My car will be 12 months old on Sept. 16 and the odometer reads 11,435. The site also led me to lemon lawyers here and I will be calling them tomorrow.

I already have four service receipts that contain complaints about either cold start
and/or stumble problems. However, I will be stopping at my dealer again tomorrow to ask if they have a fix yet and when they tell me they don't, I'll ask for documentation stating it.

I'm nearly out of time and miles, so I hope I can get in under the wire. In my case your information couldn't be more timely..........I certainly appreciate it!

 

I believe the number of repair attempts performed on any stumble car is not relevant due to the fact that there is no repair available.

 

For those living in NJ I am under the assumption that it is not necessary to file for a lemon prior to the limit (which is 2 years, 18,000 miles). As long as there have been repair attempts made prior to experation date, you still have a case.

 

Thanks for the info, JS.

Apparently, there will be no lemoning for me--at 7.5 months I'm under the time, but with an odo that reads close to 22, I fear I'm out of the running.

Oh well... this just means I'm more determined to make MINIUSA fix my car.

 

In New Jersey, it's 3 repair attemps for the same problem.At least that's what it was when I Lemon Lawed my 1993 Ford F150. They gave me a new truck equal to or less than my original sticker price.If you have all your paper work,and have already made a good faith effort to have it repaired and it was not, you should be getting in contact with Mini USA,and your Dealer.They should offer you what most companies call a good will exchange.It will cost them more to Lemon the car, than to exchange it for a new one.They can not resell the car without disclosing that the car was in fact returned under the Lemon Law.Call them and get a new car. Good Luck.Jaydawg.

 

>>In New Jersey, it's 3 repair attemps for the same problem.At least that's what it was when I Lemon Lawed my 1993 Ford F150. They gave me a new truck equal to or less than my original sticker price.If you have all your paper work,and have already made a good faith effort to have it repaired and it was not, you should be getting in contact with Mini USA,and your Dealer.They should offer you what most companies call a good will exchange.It will cost them more to Lemon the car, than to exchange it for a new one.They can not resell the car without disclosing that the car was in fact returned under the Lemon Law.Call them and get a new car. Good Luck.Jaydawg.


This is where the internet is a disadvantage to us all - BMW know we are a comunity and talk amongst ourselves the world over - if they roll over for 1 owner and give them their money back or replace their car they will be inundated with people wanting refunds or replacements. This would cost BMW a LOT of money. This is why we shall have to fight them on a case by case basis through the State Lemon Laws or as a Class Action.

DON'T wait till December - it's a ploy for a lot of people to run out of time or miles.

_________________
'03 S DS

 

My question to all of you, is if you do return the car and/or get a new one, it will still have the stumble. As far as I am aware none of the cars after a March 2003 build date work correctly. Since the new software doesn't fix the stumble, I am assuming it is not fixed in the new ones rolling off the lines. If the new ones are working correctly, than we need to find out what the difference is (i.e. hardware and software fixes). If they are not fixed, then I am not sure the Lemon Law does us any good, since the problem appears to be inherent and won't be fixed getting a new car. I really like the class action lawsuit idea that has been posted on MCO. If we can shock BMW with an expensive lawsuit, they may be willing to fix the problem. At this point, I don't want a new car or money, just the car I have fixed.

 

This is not the case, as far as I understand it. There are owners after this date that say their car runs perfectly, and MINIUSA says that only a small percentage of cars have the stumble issue. This is why I am of the belief that this cannot be a strictly software issue, but rather is a combination of software AND hardware.

I release some people upgraded to the new software and introduced the stumble, but there may also be people who are upgraded to the new software who do not stumble. I don't have good data to show that it is universal.


I was told by MINIUSA just last week that some new cars stumble and some do not stumble. I want one that does not stumble.

BTW, I also posted earlier about the December timeframe could also be a ploy to get many of us into cooler temps and winter formulation gas, so that the problem would be masked...again, until next summer when the application of lemon law for many would have expired. Well, this morning we had unseasonably cool weather here in NC. When I pulled out this morning it was 66 degrees (yes, that's cool for NC in Sept ). My stumble was greatly reduced, so temp does play a role. I also heard an interview with President George Bush, and he talked about the rising price of gas could partly be due to the cyclical nature of changing gas formulations, which is happening right now. I plan to act quickly before mother nature and gas formulation changes mask the problem.

See ya,
JS

 

Folks,

Here is another good source of information on lemon law:
http://cartalk.cars.com/Got-A-Car/Lemon/

You can also call your state's attorney general office and ask for the consumer protection division, and they can assist you.

For those who have bought out-of-state, as I did, it varies from state to state in regards to which state has jurisdiction, and in a few instances, you may be out of luck, entirely. To file North Carolina lemon law, the car must be purchased in NC. To file South Carolina lemon law, the car must be purchased in SC. So, in my case, I live in NC, but will file for SC lemon law protection. In some states, they require the car only be registered in that state to file for protection, so check the regs for your state. The statutes are available at the links I've provided, and even though they are in legal terminology, it isn't so arcane that it's incomprehensible. In fact, I was shocked by how straightforward and clear the text was. It sure beats tax law.

Good luck to everyone with getting what you bargained for!

See ya,
JS

 

I spoke with an attorney today. He said that in PA the 12 month, 12,000 mile
requirement only applies to WHEN the problem first started and not to how old it is or how much mileage it has, right now. I told him I wanted to proceed anyway and some forms are being sent to me.

Then I went to Mini of the Main Line for an update and to tell them that I needed
to file for a remedy through Lemon Law. The service rep was very understanding and encouraged me to communicate the same to Mini USA.....which I intend to do.

As for the update part, he indicated that BMW has a new version that they feel may be a solution for the stumble. A car has been sent from this dealership to engineers
in New Jersey for uploading and if it works without creating any new problems the fix will be sent out soon. They will also need to conduct diagnostic tests on each car to make certain that the symptom isn't the result of a seperate problem......to be sure that the problem the owner thinks he/she has, is in fact the stumble.

Even though this sounds promising I have initiated the Lemon Law process and will
continue to follow through until my car performs the way it should.

 

I think that is the best course. In fact, I think proceeding with lemon law, if you qualify, is excellent risk management. Think of it as insurance. It gives you leverage and allows you to get a new car or a refund if the mfg cannot fix the problem. The mfg, at least in SC, gets one more chance to correct the error. If the mfg can fix the issue, great. That's what we all want, after all. If not, well, you've given them every opportunity to provide you with a car fit for its purpose.

In South Carolina, the manufacturer gets 3 chances to fix the issue. Only after three failed attempts does lemon law become applicable. Also if the car stays in the shop for 30 days or more in a one year period, lemon law will kick in.

I know some think lemon law is mean-spirited, but it's not. This law was enacted to protect consumers from manufacturers who don't respond in a timely manner to problems with their cars. And just so folks know, this has nothing to do with your dealership. The dealership does not lose any money or incur any expense with a lemon law car. The law soley applies to the manufacturer of the vehicle. So, don't let a good relationship with a dealership stop you from proceeding. Use the protection provided for you to get what you bargained for when you purchased your new car. If all manufacturers were trustworthy, we wouldn't need the lemon law, would we?

Just so everyone following this thread knows, I sent an email to MINIUSA, yesterday, stating that I wished to discuss the issues with my car and that I had intentions of filing for lemon law protection. I stated that I would give them until 5:00PM today to respond to my email and gave them multiple ways to contact me. MINIUSA was totally unresponsive. I have heard nothing from them. So, I will proceed with lemon law.

Good luck to everyone,
JS

 

Tell me if you guys have tried this as you know or may not know when I received my MINI the cruise control was not engaed ie: I had to turn the ignition to position 1, and push the button.

I had a hard time with this concept because I flew in to Houston and picked up my mini and and read the owners manual at the hotel needless to say I couldnt get it to work.

Bear with me please...

So I had no stumble or yoyo effect for 3000 miles NONE nada zip ziltch. Then I got home figured out the cruise control and bam with in 10 min I had the ever annoying stumble.

I could be wrong but the stumble could have to do with the cruise control.

You all test this out see if you have any luck ...DIS-ENGAGE THE CRUISE CONTROL from ignition point 1.

Viola no stumble or maybe my EB MINI is "Jeckle -Hyding" me.

Let me know how this works for you folks. I hope it does not come back.

GOOD LUCK
ERIC

 

Uhhh...what? How do you disengage the cruise control? I wasn't taught about that...

 

I'm sending a certified letter to my "local office' per the OHIO lemon law reguirements within the next week or so. I have had the dreaded first gear stumble that is so bad I can't pull out of intersections, gas stations, or even my subdivision without fearing for my life. This nonsense has got to end. This kind of poor design is unacceptable in any car, let alone one that costs nearly $23,000.00. Enough is enough. my local dealer installed the newest software to no avail and will not install the newest because it sucks too.

I NEED A NEW CAR!

 

I'm sending a certified letter to my "local office' per the OHIO lemon law reguirements within the next week or so. I have had the dreaded first gear stumble that is so bad I can't pull out of intersections, gas stations, or even my subdivision without fearing for my life. This nonsense has got to end. This kind of poor design is unacceptable in any car, let alone one that costs nearly $23,000.00. Enough is enough. my local dealer installed the newest software to no avail and will not install the newest because it sucks too.

I NEED A NEW CAR!

 

For anyone who is interested: I had some fairly happy news today regarding the stumble. Please read my two posts in the main Stumble thread if you're interested.

Stumble

Cheers!