Our 07 had a horrible engine noise about two months ago. It was an internal rattle and I seriously thought the thing was coming apart. 30,000 miles. Turned the motor off and back on after about 30 seconds and it quit. Reported it at our service so it was on file even though they blamed it on a cold start. One time event until last week. About the same time last week the thing started to hesitate on downshift while trying to accelerate from 55-60 range. Wife drove it with a tech today. Here's what they did and it is like a brand new car again.

33974 dis test...fuel cutoff short -time superknocking..2d52...note:short-term superknocking was detected by dme and injection was deactivated for 3-5 cycles for safety reasons...this deactivation is noticeable for the driver...check engine for knocking noise and found all ok ... found bulletin 110207 ... check chain tensioner and replaced with updated part #11317582036 ... clear fault memory

Now the tech that did the ride along was from the Ukraine and told her about some noise that was common to the peugeot engines. It lasts up to 30 minutes in some cases. I am pretty sure the chain tensioner has cured ours. There is a big difference in the engine response. Also got our melting scoop replaced.

Midwestern Auto Group in Columbus, Ohio.

 

There have been a few reports of owners having their chain tensioners replaced very recently with this exact part (#11317582036 available since Nov '08) only to have the death rattle return.

Sure hope your MINI is an exception and it continues to show signs that it's back to full health.

 

This issue is getting just as much, if not more, attention and outcry "across the pond." Saw this little gem over on the MINI2 forum and couldn't resist sharing...

 

I saw that too-- How'd he do that?

 

He created an MP3 CD with that album and song title name.

 

For everyone pinning their hopes on BMW's redesigned timing chain tensioner, this post appeared today over on MINI2:

QUOTE
Had the new timing chain tensioner fitted on Friday and took approximately 36 hours for the rattle to re-appear.

So that's another £1000 cost to BMW and two days wasted.

Sounds worse and lasts longer than than before higher up to rev range. Previously on between 1 and 2k - now up to 3K.

What is the next course of action with my dealer I wonder. This has now been ongoing for 15 months.

Pablo
END QUOTE

There are other reports of the death rattle coming back after tensioner replacement. Not a big confidence builder.

 

bummer, because that's Tom's latest theory.

Since the justacoopers arent affected, even in the most remote sense could the rattle have something to do with VANOS and oil delivery? Or is this just a badly designed system?

I love a good mystery but this is getting ridculous...

 

If I remember correctly, some of the vehicles with this problem early on had work done and replacement parts that targeted the VANOS system, without benefit. BMW/MINI have long since switched their focus to the timing chain tensioner.

 

This makes since to a problem I have been having. I have and auto and when I first drive the car (engine cold) it surges/hesitates/lurches bad. That has been happening for the last 5-8,000 miles. Dealer has not found anything wrong up to this point. Just Sat morning I got the death rattle for the first time. I called the dealer and they are going to put the updated kit in my engine. He said it should take care of my surging problem too. I guess we will see.

JJ

 

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm simply passing along the answer I got when I asked recently as I thought the action/in-action was pertinent to this conversation.

 

that it will be another bandaid, instead of a root cause fix. BTW, have you directed your contacts to read the thread over on MotoringUnderground (I think that's where it is). They guy who was looking at the hydrolic lifers seems to have a pretty clear, self-consistant explanation and suggested solution. While new lifters for cars isn't cheap, neither is fixing cars that don't stay fixed....

Matt

 

Yeah I've sent over a number of links to them including the M|U thread.

 

I've been reporting daily to my SA following the replacement of the tensioner (older version, not spring loaded). The problem has gotten louder and last longer. They are asking me to bring it in again so a MINI engineer can observe it on a cold start tomorrow.

I only hope it does its thing for them too. It has made noise 3 out of the past 7 days.

Update to follow.

 

^^^^^^^^^
Schedule them to look at it every day for the next 10 years. The problem will be solved. IOW, you can bet it won't happen when you want it to

Seriously, best of luck. I haven't had this happen but I've been monitoring this thread.

 

If possible, before U take it in try this: if Frodo is to be parked for 6+ hours, when you shut the engine off, rev it to 3K first, keep it there, and press the stop button. Then see if it rattles the next time you start 'er up; if not, keep up this experiment to see how long it goes w/o rattling. Let us know.

It may be a reach--seems like everything related to this problem is anymore--but Im testing a possible theory on the hydraulic lash adjusters and the oil delivery system.

PS I discovered this quote from Tom the SAE engineer at MichiganMINI after I posted: Revved Couper to 2500-3K immediately prior to shut-down before supper last night, and this morning's cold start (17°F in the garage, 9°F outdoors) was the way it should always be - quiet and uneventful. Revving the engine may have something to do with the operation of the variable displacement oil pump. Anyone here familiar with the oil pump and it's operating strategy? Please chime in.

 

Just got some disturbing news from the Portland, OR MINI service dept: They have informally heard about tensioner fix version 3.0, but have not received anything official from BMW. All they are authorized to do today is install the Nov '08 revised tensioner - which is ineffective.

When I mentioned the increased chatter of snapped timing chains on the UK-based MINI2 forum, the SA said - without prompting from me - that they have already replaced several engines for broken timing chains, and that one just came into the shop this morning - new engine required.

I do have to praise this dealership for being openly honest about the engine issue - no "It's normal" BS - and that they have started an informal recall list of affected local MINI owners to notify as soon as they receive authorization to do something.

 

Given that they've had enough reports to feel compelled to start an informal recall list at this one dealership, if you extrapolate it to the potential "virtual" lists that could be created at all 83 MINI USA dealerships it pretty obvious that there must be quite a few rattling engines out there.

Kudos to Rasmussen for acknowledging the issue! This response as reported by OldMGuy is so refreshing in the face of all of the denial everywhere else. I actually took the time to find their website and I sent them an email thanking them for their honesty and customer service. They deserve it. It's nice to know that there's at least one location that seems to care about maintaining positive and long-term customer relations.

 

I second this acknowledgment. Rasmussen (SA- Ann) has been great.

I've just got my fingers crossed that Frodo makes some noise this morning at the dealership.

 

My 2009 built in 10/2008 has had the chatter 6-8 times since the weather got cold. It seems to do better if I park with the nose uphill.

I don't know much about car engines but I find myself wondering how this can be an engineering problem unless a large percentage of the MCS's owned in cold climates have the chatter. If it is a badly designed part, why don't all of them suffer the problem?

 

I suspect that the vast majority do have this problem, to some degree. Given that between this forum and MINI2 there are several users who have had entire engines replaced and even their entire car replaced only to have the same problem with their replacement leads me to believe it is very widespread indeed.

 

I've got two 2007 Cooper "S" coupes (long story). Mine (24,000 miles) is an early production model that has the start-up "death rattle" on cold starts (8+ hours shutdown time) about 50% of the time, even with the Nov '08 version replacement chain tensioner. The wife's mid-year car always starts and purrs like a Honda and has never rattled in 17,000 miles. Other than color, the cars are mechanically identical. I have no idea why there's a difference ...

 

My 2008 Mini Cooper S (Stick Shift) that rolled off the floor on Sept 29th, 2008 with only 2850 miles received this "death rattle" 3 days ago. It and was sitting in my leveled garage for 2 days. It is winter here in Calif, but the temp was about 50F. It really scared me when I heard it and then I reved it up to see if it'll go away. It wasn't as loud, but I still heard it. I warmed up my mini for 5 minutes and took off. The sound was still there, although faint when idling. Second day, cold start. Noise very faint. Third day, rattling gone! I still made an appt with dealership in 2 days and won't be driving my car till then. Hope it comes back when I take it in.

 

Dragonlady - Welcome to a very large group of unhappy MINI owners with the same issue of the cold start "death rattle". It appears all cars with the turbo version of the R56 motor have a poorly designed and tested timing chain/cylinder head valve train system. There are literally tens of thousands of forum posts on this very subject on several US and European-based MINI forums - even MINI's own Owners Lounge forum. There are hundreds of YouTube videos of rattling MINIs and really upset owners.

Don't be afraid to drive the car. It won't rattle on every cold (overnight sit) start, and once you've driven it, it should be quiet on subsequent re-starts during the day. If it does rattle, it will usually go away in a minute or so, or a mile of easy driving. Try to keep the rpms below 2000 until the rattle fades. After that, let 'er rip and enjoy the car.

Do get in your dealer's face about this. DO NOT accept any comments to the effect that the startup noise "is normal". Metal-on-metal contact of internal engine components is NOT normal. It's lousy engineering and design, period. Your dealer is well aware of the problem. Unfortunately, BMW has not released the third version of a "fix" to US dealers yet. Two previous modified chain tensioners "fixes" have failed to remedy the problem. So, about all the dealer can do today is promise to notify you when they get the authorization to do something.

Eventually, BMW is going to have to recall and replace the timing chain system on every turbo-powered MINI they've built, starting with the 2007 models.

If you're not interested in waiting, file a complaint with the federal agency that deals with defective auto issues http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/index.cfm, and check into your state's auto "Lemon" laws.

I absolutely love driving my MINI Cooper S. Just wish BMW would get their act together and fix it!

 

Thanks for the words of comfort oldMGguy. I absolutely love my baby and it was like a knife in my heart when I first heard it. I will take your advise and cross my fingers that BMW will own up to the problem. In the meantime, to the dealership I go tomorrow. If the noise doesn't happen while I'm there, at least there's documentation of the problem. Meanwhile, I'll be zipping around!

 

Been following this discussion here and on Mini2. My 09 MCS is being built now at Oxford (another point of chagrin). Looking forward to having the car with some trepidation. Question, I tend to agree with Tom's diagnosis of poor HLA oiling but if true, why does shutting off the engine as soon as the death rattle appears, waiting 1-2 minutes, then restarting work at eliminating the rattle? With the engine off there is no oil being pumped. Just wondering. ANother question for which there is no answer: anyone with a rough idea of the percentage of turbos affected? 10? 25? more?