Actually, I think between here and Mini2 there are several owners who have had their engines replaced and had the problem return. In fact, I only remember one who hasn't had the problem return (yet).

I have a strong feeling that this issue is inherent in the engine design, and it can manifest itself to varying severity depending on other conditions (conditions which seem to be somewhat inconsistent, yet all seem to be things that might affect oil flow). The fact that the problem has returned in cases where engines have been replaced would seem to support this theory, as would the sheer number of people reporting the problem on this forum (given that they represent a small percentage of R56 owners), as would the fact that this same problem is affecting the Peugeot 207 variant based on the same engine.

Personally, if my Mini hadn't produced the noise once (and only once) to the severity many have posted here and on Mini2, I wouldn't have been concerned. Now that I know what to listen for, I can hear it more frequently, when most people would probably not be able to hear anything even if told what to listen for. It makes me wonder how many R56 owners are out there who have the noise, but don't realize it or who don't think it is a problem because it hasn't gotten loud enough. Not to mention that if I happened to reside in a location where the temperature rarely (if ever) came close to freezing, I would have yet to have experienced any noise at all. Oh, how I wish I lived someplace warm (especially with another massive winter storm on the way), but I digress...

 

Dealership didn't hear either cold-start noise in my car for the whole week I left it there. Was told by one person that it was "normal" and by the SA that MINI is working on it, I've documented it, don't worry for now. So... whatever. I still love my car, but I can 100% relate to the people who get to the "I can't take it I'm getting rid of the car" point.

 

Mini has a TSB on it, I think.
I'm pretty sure that they'll give me some credible details this afternoon; they know I'm active on the board and have been pretty skippy with me at every turn so far. They backed me 100% when my other car imploded...

 

Mines getting worse and starting to worry me. It's been 40 and 50 degree's out, and it is doing it almost 100% of the time now.

By the way, I don't find it has anything to do do with the lenght of the previous drive. I use my MINI almost excusively to commute to work, which is a 30 minute drive. I get the same results wether I drive 30 minutes, or 2 minute s to the deli for lunch the next time I start my car.


As for the fix/problem diagnosis: "caused by oil being aerated on the cam chain...". I don't know man, mine really sounds like a physical grinding, I will be very surprised if oil is making this noise??? But then again, I'm NO mechanic, I'd be lucky to find the engine in the mini!! ;-)

 

To the contrary, the sound is MUCH MORE prevelent in person, than in the tapes on you tubes, TRUST ME. It sounds like a chainsaw chain grinding against a piece of 4'x4' sheet metal in person.

And, I bet it is MORE prevelent that we are hearing, because of the opposite of what you said. Many people hear it, then see the threads about the normal "tick" sound the mini motors make, and make the mistake of thinking what they are hearing (the cold start grind noise) is in fact the "normal" noisy mini motor ticking.

 

It's not the oil making the noise, it's hard parts because they are oil-starved as a result of change in flow dynamics caused by the aerated oil.
Stop the bubbles, stop the clanking.
Give me a few days; I get my car back today and will talk more with the tech. Then I'll drive it a few days and listen with a critical ear. I'm having a couple of the lads over to the house tomorrow and we're putting springs/rsb/control arms on Arthur --- great chance to have many ears on the engine.
I hope it's figured out; that would be nice.

 

That's easy...it's the thing making all that noise

Seriously though, sorry to hear about all your problems. I sincerely hope there is a fix on the horizon...it sure seems like more of a problem than most people are letting on.

 

The thing that popped into my head when I heard the noise for the first time is Valvetrain. Then I thought of Oil Journals. Then I thought: I wonder if this could be solved with a different oil viscosity?

What if it's that simple?

 

Actually, earlier in this thread, the forum member named Event-Horizon reports that he has not heard the cold start noise ever since he switched to 0w-30 oil.

 

LOL!!!

 

I gotcha. I kinda figured that, but I still find THAT hard to believe! I can't believe it would make that much noise because of a little oil starvation. Over time, yes, wear would start building up, and it would make all sorts of noise. But every time you start a car motor, it's basically dry for 5 or 10 seconds, they don't make tons of noise like this during that time.

Ok, I'm going to lift my rear hatch and find the motor tonight!!!

 

FYI:

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/02/...issue-exposed/

 

If aeration is the problem, a thinnner oil probably won't be a permanant fix. I'd bet however, that combined with somthing like this:

http://www.accusump.com/

...might provide a bit of additional insurance, though.

 

SuperModSquad, how about adding your entry to the Cold Start Issue Database thread?

 

My SA says that although 0w-30 might help, MINI doesn't use it. As long as it fills the requirements in the Operator's Manual, he says it's perfectly warranty safe --- but we have to do it ourselves.


And here's what it says on the bottom of my service receipt about the fix for the clatter:

,,,,20297 SIB 11 02 07 Performed SIB 11 02 07 REGARDING INSUFFICIENT
,,,,AIR FREE OIL TO CHAIN TENSIONER. PERFORMED BLEED PROCEDURE STEPS 1-5,
,,,,NO NOISE AFTER REPAIRS. DC: 1133043900; LO:1199000; FRU:5


Can anybody look up this service bulletin to see what it references and the exact procedure? I didn't have an opportunity to talk to the techs, just the SA and he had no idea about the nuts and bolts.
The success of this procedure is pending further scrutiny...

 

Did the name of the thread get changed? It appears differently on the email notice I received for the last post.

 

Looks like the title was softened a bit ! Hmmmm?

 

My owner's manual specifically says 5W-30 or 5W-40. It makes no mention of 0W-30. Do other's manuals have a different call out?

 

it's perfectly safe to run a 0w-30 oil in a car that says to use 5w-30/40. The difference is the 0w when cold. Once the engine has warmed up to operating temp the oil acts like a 30 weight or in this case for the castrol I use almost a 40 weight. Just because it has a "0" in the name does not mean that the oil is thinner. You have to look at the viscosity numbers to determine how "thick" or "thin" the oil will behave like.

Take a look at the PDS: http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...syntec_usa.pdf

The 0w-30 is acctually "thicker" than the 5w-30. And has a colder pour point.

 

I understand and agree with that. However, will MINI understand and agree with that as it is not in manual. I worry about them saying that an unauthorized oil was used.

 

"I understand and agree with that. However, will MINI understand and agree with that as it is not in manual. I worry about them saying that an unauthorized oil was used."

Exactly.

 

I've only ever seen them in cars set up for the track and then, they are only turned on once the car is running. The purpose is to 'stockpile' oil in the remote tank so when/if low pressure is detected (like hard cornering or a failure) the oil from the remote tank is forced back in - if you open the valve before the engine is running, you just overfill the oil sump.

I say this because I have one in an SCCA ITB racer and I'm wondering how this could actually be useful in the MINI's case... might be, but I don't know how

 

The 0w affords an improved flow dynamic at start-up --- as long as you stick with the Euro-spec endorsement, Mini wouldn't be able to deny any warranty claim.

I did some research with Blackstone Labs regarding their method of mass-spec oil analysis to see if I could use my mass-specs at the lab to test for real-world differences between oils. BL uses kerosene to dilute their samples; my FE's tell me that kerosene is a poor choice and would skew any fine data analysis.
So, if this is an industry standard, Mini probably would never actually be able to prove before arbitration that a different oil was used any how.

I'm still trying to find one of my instructors to get the company to pay for the calibration samples to test the oil; I'm not willing to put up the money.
They might do it as a demonstration of the machine's capabilities --- I would do an organic spectrum analysis of a variety of fresh oils to see what (if any) differences there are. I'd use the same brand but different endorsements.

 

My manual mentions nothing about Euro spec oil. If mentions a US spec and specifically calls out 5W-30 or 5W40. I am not trying to argue a point needlessly here, as I am using MINI oil and have not heard the noise, but I don't see how the 0W oil meets the manual's call out.

I called MINI USA when I wanted to change my own oil and asked them what the approved oils referred to in manual were. I was told Castrol, Mobil 1 or Valvoline full synthetic 5W30 or 5W40. I specifically asked if the oil from among these brands needed to meet any specs and was told no it just needs to be full synthetic.

If I could convince myself that the OW-30 was approved, I would probably use it as a preventive measure.

 

As long as the oil meets A3/B3 and BMW LL-01 specs you will be fine. You would be better off running a 0w-30 A3/B3 LL-01 oil than a 5w-30 non spec synthetic like Mobil 1.