This is just a suggestion. I know I would have found it invaluable when I bought my car and would still find it invaluable.

Several threads have suggested that there is a wealth of performance information (i.e., Knowledge) spread all over the threads and it should be in some kind of FAQ or Knowledge Base. The same questions get repeatedly asked and that is why FAQs exist.

I believe that the DEFINITIVE information on the varied performance parts (e.g., Intercoolers, anti-sway bars) and the different makers/specifications for those parts exists right here on NAM. Further, I'd venture to guess that the accumulated knowledge of the membership probably is not surpassed anywhere ... period.

The thing is that there are maybe 30+ different performance related parts (e.g., anti-sway bars, Intercoolers, pulleys) and each of those are made by many different vendors (e.g., Alta, H-Sport, Eichach, etc.) so putting it all together is a hodge-podge and its really a guessing game as to what to do. I'm not talking about bling here. For example, non-functional aerodynamic kits that do nothing to increase performance would not be included.

Worse yet, you got a bunch of "packages" (e.g., Mini-Mania stage 1, Dinan stage 2, etc.) out there that combine a bunch of things and it would be nice if you can see them all in one place.

I know that when I was researching and buying my MINI, I would have loved to had such a thing for research.

I would suggest that NAM be the champion for putting up the "DEFINITIVE" MINI tuning FAQ, something modeling like this:

MC

MCS

ENGINE

Catch Cans
Alta
Camshafts
Schrick (with specs)
Intercoolers
GRS

SUSPENSION

Springs

Front Anti-Sway Bars

etc.

WHEELS

Now HOW to put it together and keep it updated is another question!

 

As there are so many different goals people have when tuning their MINI I would hesitate to try to do a definitive guide to performance tuning...especially when I don't do tuning myself. That said I am always open to looking at different ways to present information on the site such as a how-to database, wheel/tire database, etc. These are things that I could build for the site. If there are some things like this that could be useful then let's start to discuss them so I can build a spec on what needs to be done. Let me know your thoughts...be sure to keep the list to absolute must-haves and nice-to-haves will often make even the most simple project daunting.

Thanks!

Mark

 

Mark

By definitive I didn't mean to say THIS IS IT, but rather this is THE RESOURCE where to go look up information. Maybe I was using hyperbole. OK, for a list, its kind of like what I started. I would have a data base of each potential ITEM linked to the different manufacturers and their claims. For example, under an Engine Performance Section you could have:

INTAKES

ALTA, its performance claim ... and the associated link to their website part
MINIMANIA ULTRIK, its performance claim, and the associated link
PROMINI, claims 5-7 HP, and its link

and so forth.

You would have a main entry for things like

EXHAUSTS
INTERCOOLERS
PULLEYS

etc.

If you want a full list, it will take time to research and write down but I'd bet the members here know most of them because they already own them and could just add to this thread ... then we could compile them?

 

So to play devil's advocate a bit (this is how I like to brainstorm with others to make a plan)...

Who helps to compile the information?
How is it organized?
How is it kept current?
How are the claims presented (based on 3rd party testing, the manufacturer, etc.)?
What is the process for making sure the content meets our posting guidelines, some type of presentation/organization standard, etc.?

Would this be something like the Wikipedia but for the MINI? An open source means of collecting information...people submit pieces of info, editors for particular areas review it, etc.

Just questions to help drill down into making something that is doable and manageable.

Mark

 

A fantastic idea but MCS owners will take everything over just as they always do both here and on Team Mighty MINIZ.

MC owners are thrown out to the dust, and ridiculed because they choose the "Lesser" car.

 

To begin, we have to start with a template of all the possible things that need to be there (e.g., Intakes). We can even initially populate it with the things very popular (e.g., Alta Intake). From there:

1. The members. No better source than the members PROVIDED that they use the FORMAT in the template provided (it can be in a thread, for example, for Intakes).
2. Just like your current setup (i.e., drivetrains, suspensions, wheel/tires)
3. Hopefully, the membership will add to the "input" thread as they find new stuff (which comes out all the time). This is KIND of like Wikipedia in that it depends upon the input of the members (besides the initial template)
4. By whatever the Source or Manufactuers claims (we add that caveat to the reader). For example, see http://store.webbmotorsports.com/ind...products_id=36
5. Randy claims up to 17 HP for his intercooler. We need the caveat emptor part because clearly some vendors might make exaggareted claims and you cant believe everything you read.
6. Yes. Members post their finds to an "input" thread in the pre-established format. From there I would guess you or a moderator would have to move the inputs into the actual final format. The moderator would be vetting the info

As for Wikipedia, I would exactly follow that format but in principle, yes. Any member can add to the input thread but you or the moderators (editors) have to vet it before its actually entered.

It HAS to be driven by the membership. It would be a horrible job for one person to gather ALL that information. Besides, some clearly know more than others in certain areas. You already got many experts in certain areas but I seriously doubt everyone knows everything

This isn't about making judgements on parts. Rather, its just a data base or resource for "finding" all the parts.

Such a thing would be Invaluable to new MINI buyers as well as current members deciding on what new widget to buy.

DrDiff ... not true. We just add the MC section to the template. Your covered ... but to work, the MC owners would have to contribute:smile:

 

The idea is noble, but the subject matter does not lend itself to a 'definitive' list, precisely because of the reason Mark noted - everyone's definition of performance parts differs. The claims also differ, as results depend on all mods, not just one - this without broaching dyno variances. In addition, the market is still young and changing fast, so it would be outdated quickly (MINI-FINI tow-link, anyone?)

We have the SEARCH function, which will provide a plethora of information, data and subjective opinion. If a question exists, it is answered by the multitude.
IMO, it is a better service to encourage a modder to look at all current info and make the decision from there. We already have the list of NAM supporters, and web navigation is pretty easy these days.

 

See last post. "definitive" was the wrong word, hyperbole. Its more a data base of existing parts. You got to start someplace and going to all the vendors website is a pain, even you even know them all.

As to claims, caveat emptor. All we can do is list the vendors "claim". Sure all the parts work together but that isnt the point, I think, The point is a resource to look stuff up, not to be definitive on HP gains. That would be pointless as you say.

 

Yes...that is one of my concerns of doing something like an open source effort. Something like this would have to have editors that are respected in the community and have a LOT of product knowledge. That said it could be more of a directory like the Review system with product descriptions from the manufacturers and links to their sites.

Mark

 

As for a directory for products...how would this be substantially different from the Reviews system here on NAM? This was put in place to collect information submitted by members and, to date, it has not been utilized like I had hoped it would have been.

Mark

 

The review section would be good, BUT, its not populated. If you could get it populated, that would be great? How to get it populated?

Its more than just vendors, there are many vendors. Somebody got to add them

Maybe there's not enuff interest at large. Maybe Erics right in that you could search the archive its just that that takes a long time

 

So if the Review area of the site might be able to capture the information we're looking for how can we get it populated with all the products in the market? Given that it will take time and a lot of knowledge of what's going on in the MINI aftermarket is there someone that would be interested in becoming a product czar for the site? While I couldn't offer to pay a lot I would be willing to offer some $$$ to have someone focus on this area of the site, get it populated, organize it, and keep it as current as possible. Anyone interested in something like this? If so, use the Contact Us form to provide your NAM username, background, length of membership on the site, aptitude with computers, and your knowledge of the MINI OEM and aftermarket and we'll see if we find a good fit.

Thanks!

Mark

 

Mark

I was thinking more in the line of the attached. The review section has a single web page for each review. Thats cool if you got more detail. I was thinking more in line for each of your subsections ONE summary. For example, on page https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...cat.php?cat=22
that is the list of MCS Intakes reviewed. Instead of that page show something like the attached but you would need to have a hyperlink to each review if a review exists.

I only put a few entries in the attached table buy you get the point, in ONE place a member can see ALL the available intakes, their prices, the website, date of entry, brand, comments (e.g., 02 - 04 only). The thing is someone would have to be willing to fill out the table for each subsection (RATHER than having the members do it like we were discussing before)

What you think?

 

Some questions regarding the piece you put together...

1) What do other product categories look like? (ie - what data points are different). For example if we did this for wheels we would need to capture weight, offset, diameter, etc.

2) How is priced established? Given that many vendors sell the same or similar product do you take a sampling of prices and display an average or something else.

3) Would a particular category need to be sortable on each of its columns? For example you could sort on price, the performance claim, the vendor, etc.

Also, if we had someone pulling information like this I would also want them to make an entry in the review system so that, in the table, we could either link to the review or display the review rating for the product in the table.

Keep the thoughts going on this. This could result in a new feature for the site.

Mark

 

1. Most things would be the same. For example, I see no difference in this table if I had chosen Intercoolers or cat back exhausts. Even wheels and tires are no different. I wouldnt put the fine details in the summary but rather point to the review. For example, on the intakes, I didn't say you could get a Blue or Red silicone hose.
2. Excellent question. If its proprietary to the vendor then its ONLY the vendors price. For example, if the category was Intercoolers, Randy Webb sells his OWN branded IC so h is price is THE price. For something like the Alta Intake, Alta sells it on THEIR website for $260. JSC Speed sells it for $229. My opinion is you go with the ALTA list price because I dont think you want to be like CNET and list all the cheapest prices ... that would be a nightmare and require some kind of search bot. List price is good, it gives the idea. Its up to the members to find the best price and I'm sure some people are happy to buy directly from Alta.
3. Yes, that would be cool. Then you could sort by price or by HP claims. BTW, I would add the caveat of "caveat emptor". Don't believe everything you read ... they are only unproven claims but still help people
4. Absolutely

 

I think that for some items having information that differentiates the parts should be included up front. Obviously there is not a claimed HP for wheels but there is a weight. Given that my bent is autrcrossing I would be most interested in cost, weight, offset (to see if it is legal in a stock class), width, and diameter.

The reason I'm going into this level of detail is trying to figure out if there is a reasonable solution based on a database or if this is something that is managed/edited by hand and crafting HTML. Personally I would like it to be database driven as it would make it easier to build management tools around it for whoever works on it. Given this I'm trying to get an idea of "how" different product categories would be.

In this case I would recommend just doing a approximate price for everything (ie - ~$265.00)

Yes...everyone must be aware that your mileage may vary. We all know that there is no way to say you will ALWAYS get a certain number out of a product.

 

1. OK, I see. Yup, for things like wheels and tires you need offset, weight, and traction, load, and speed ratings along with the basics. I doubt there is anything else like this ... maybe pulley size (15, 16, 17, 19%) and Cranks pulleys (0, 2, 4 percent). You would have to make a MASTER list of all the items first and then decide on what extra fields are needed besides the basics. BUT, DB driven is the way to go ... forget about custom HTML.
2. Agreed. Ball park is all that matters. Besides, sometimes stuff goes on sale.
3. Agreed ... caveat emptor.

What else you need?

 

If I am able to develop something (and it won't be until after Christmas) I'll need help with building out the content. Given this I'm still looking for a content czar to assist and can offer some $$$ for the assistance.

Mark

 

I can help building the master template. Dont need $$$.

actual content czar will be intensive. I can pick one. Others who may be experts in those areas should pick what they know (I actually know nothing but know how to look it up ... just tedious) I think it would be too much for just one person