Mark asked me to submit some suggestions for how the Mods should handle delicate situations and I've been giving it a lot of thought, but haven't come up with anything better than what I've seen on other sites, which may not be possible with this (or the new) software.

What I've seen/done, appreciated and found effective is to have a mod post the site guidelines pertaining to appropriate contributions. Not all the rules, just the behavior guidelines, when things got a little heated. It was just enough to calm things down 99% of the time. That of course IS possible with any software.

On G35driver.com the mods do not completely delete posts, they will edit them, and leave the italicized "this post has been edited by ::mod handle:: . Instead of deleting the entire thread or post, they would delete only the offensive, rule-breaking content. And it helped to know who was doing their job, and who to contact with questions about the edited post.

The mods were also careful not to post in threads where people had drawn up sides to root for one side or the other. Mods should not take sides unless they want some people to feel persecuted. Governing bodies must take care to protect the rights of minorities, and that includes people with unpopular opinions/beliefs. (All of us will **** off somebody someday, after all.) This is doubly important when someone has complained about the thread's content. Even if you don't agree with their complaint, find it spurious or hyper-sensitive, it ought to be respected. Most of the time all anyone wants is to be heard. A simple "I understand completely why you would find that offensive; however, it does not break our rules," plus posting guidelines as a reminder, will often suffice.

In general, before taking any action, do the reciprocity test - ask yourself, would I want someone doing that to me? If the answer is no, then don't do it to them!

I think totally deleting threads/posts is a terrible way to run a forum and heartily endorse the idea of the "underbelly" folder. An adult-only, enter-at-your-own-risk place for people to go to say anything is an important facet of a healthy social unit.

Anyway, that's my .02 as requested.

 

Totally deleting threads is pretty harsh, especially when the thread actually has some meaningful info burried in it, but look at how many mods there are, I think 5 is all or close.

I agree that we should have a enter at your own risk section, but isnt that what OT&B is for?

 

I consider it a privilege to be part of MCO. If I cannot abide by the rules then I must accept the consequences of my actions.

I think if there are clearly rules that determine what behavior is acceptable and what is not then when problems occur it is an easy call to allow or disallow these actions.

Break the rules, you risk being part of MCO.

Obviously people will want different things. If we recognize that people want something that isn't being provided for then we have a choice to provide an outlet for that need or request. Do we really need an adults only section? Is that the tone of discussion that we wish to provide for our MCO members. Do we want to attract members that desire that type of forum?

The person to determine our direction is Mark. My own opinion is that we should be moving in the direction that we have already shown our strength. Getting people who own MINIs in touch with one another in a virtual and in a local sense. Coordinate our activities and serve as a resource for expanding what we do for and with our MINIs. Provide support for and be creative about doing some crazy and not so crazy things with our cars. Getting questions answered from the most basic to the completely technical as it pertains to our MINIs.

I think there is tremendous potential for MCO. But not in fighting with one another and expressing intolerance for opinions that we do not agree with or share. I think we can find a better use for our time on MCO.

Live Aloha.

 

>>I consider it a privilege to be part of MCO. If I cannot abide by the rules then I must accept the consequences of my actions.
>>

I am so happy to see there is someone left in the world that will be responsible for THEIR own actions, not blaming it on others.

A few think to blame the moderators or other posters to their (bad hair day) problems with flames that do not exist. To beat a dead horse, gets you no where, to speak – IF you get my drift.

Get off the band wagon…
Take a cold shower…
Take two aspirin in the morning…

JUST GET OVER IT.

 

Minihune always has a great attitude. :smile:

 

>>Totally deleting threads is pretty harsh, especially when the thread actually has some meaningful info burried in it, but look at how many mods there are, I think 5 is all or close.
>>

Good point, there should be a good Mod/Posts (or new thread) ratio, and that would probably call for more mods than we have now.

>>I agree that we should have a enter at your own risk section, but isnt that what OT&B is for?

Unfortunately, no. Threads are deleted and locked all the time in OT.

 

Minihune
I agree with you 100%. and Cat, as for him always having a great attitude - He lives on an island paradise for Gods sake and his M is so happy to be there it’s always jumping up and down. Just wish I lived there too.

 

Everyone,
I appreciate the constructive feedback and wanted to offer some of my thoughts as well. First...posting guidelines and what is considered appropriate for the site. Our Site Guidelines we created for just this purpose in March of 2002. Obviously I've learned a lot in trying to manage the "wars" that erupt on the site and these need to be updated a bit to incorporate forms of abuse that we've been faced to take some type of action toward. Also, we need to incorporate something around the escalation path of repeated abuses (not necessarily the same one but those that demonstrate some form of behavior that is damaging to the site/community in some way).

In improving these guidelines I would prefer to develop them amoung a small group of people and then post them for review and feedback. Once they have gone through that process and updated to incorporate feedback they would be published. I would like to do the same for moderation of forums as well as vendor posting guidelines.

The second issue is in regard to deletion of threads. It is my policy that I have conveyed to moderators to move threads that become problematic to the Under Review forum where I will have a chance to review the issues, gather input from other mods if necessary, contact those at the center of the storm, and determine a course of action. Ideally I would like to be able to quickly clean up a thread but we currently have no ability to bulk edit, delete individual posts. The new software I'll be moving the site to should make this much easier and I'll clean up and move as many of the threads currently Under Review back into their original posting areas. (Please note that Under Review doesn't show up in the forum selector pulldown. The only way to access it is by clicking on Main Menu/Forums and looking for it in the forum list.)

If threads are being deleted as a whole (and aren't making it to Under Review) please let me know as that is not the policy I want to operate by.

The third issue is relative to OT and moderation there. OT is intended to discuss things un-related to the MINI. As such these are sometimes controversial topics and emotions get heated. I would prefer to not moderate this forum at all since by going into the forum you as a reader/poster know what you are getting into. I still think that the site posting guidelines should still apply but to date these policies have been VERY difficult to enforce. It seems that once a discussion gets going that the guidelines often go out the window. Many members don't have the ability to take someone else's viewpoint as just that...a point of view. Going forward I think the only way to resolve this issue is to make OT a member only area...one that you know what you are getting into when you go in. Unfortunately I can't enforce that right now as I can't control access to a single forum. So...in the meantime the only thing I can say is be warned...it gets hot in there...and do your best to abide by the guidelines.

The fourth issue...and a pet peeve of mine...is that of not offering constructive feedback in order to improve the site. I have always welcomed feedback and while I may not be able to act on it immediately I do take it into consideration in my planning for the future of the site. When people complain that something isn't fair and don't offer some possible solutions then I have a difficult time finding a solution. If you have a problem with something on the site then email me with some ideas about resolving it to everyone's best benefit and we can discuss it.

In closing I want to add that when problems flare up (like the Go to Hell thread, etc.) it often takes some time for a moderator (or myself) to find out about it. In the case of last night I had gone to a hockey game only to return to a firestorm. Today I have family obligations that will prevent me from addressing it fully today. As such, I ask for patience. Although there are moderators on the site everyone are doing it on a volunteer basis and are therefore not always online...give me and the other mods a chance to get back online and start addressing the problem.

Thanks....the constructive feedback (which thread has been) office is now open for suggestions.

Mark

 

Hi All
Thanks for the mods resent moving some threads to under review. Guess what web-site just locked out guests to some forums? I’ll never tell.
Charles

 

I am a new member of this site, and thus don't have much to contribute. However, I have been reading most of the threads for the past couple of months, and to me it seems like there is a "us vs. them" attitude on MCO. There seems to be some people who are (I assume) old time friends and thus seem to gang up on other people. Of course this is just an observation from reading such threads.


-Barry

 

Hi Bcooper56
Just because your new to this site doesn't mean you don't have much to contribute. Everyone can contribute as much or as little as they want. Don't try to be one of them or one of us, just be yourself. Welcome
Charles

 

>>I am a new member of this site, and thus don't have much to contribute.

You never know, you may have much to contribute.

>>However, I have been reading most of the threads for the past couple of months, and to me it seems like there is a "us vs. them" attitude on MCO. There seems to be some people who are (I assume) old time friends and thus seem to gang up on other people. Of course this is just an observation from reading such threads.
>>
>>
>>-Barry

Barry, I can see where you would get that kind of idea. If you really look deeper it is only a small group of posters with similarities in their signatures that are the vocal martyrs. The majority of posters on MCO are reasonable adults who just want to focus on Mini related issues. This minority of posters seems to cause trouble and then play the "im oppressed" game when they get called to account for their actions. My advice is post and have fun, if something bothers you don't read it. If it really bothers you PM a mod about.

 

On usenet people build killfiles which filter posts from trolls and other obnoxious posters so that the user never even saw the offending posts. I was just over on MINI2 and they have this exact capability: "ignore lists". Would this be a possibility here on MCO? It might help to keep down the flame wars.
________________

 

I'd like to have the option of "ignoring" somebody. It's a cool option. But I find myself reading certain people just to make sure they are what they are. Characters take time to reveal themselves, after all, and we can all have a bad day or a hasty, intemperate post now and again. I myself reserve the right to use the "I just ate a twinkie" or "It's a full moon" defense on occasion.

All communities go through growing pains, cyber-communities are no exception. That's why a clear reminder as to the purpose and direction of the board and of the online exchanges helps to keep us all on track. Rather than take the side of a person against another person, take the side of the guidelines.

Right now threads are being locked/deleted with very little or no explanation or warning. It's unsettling to say the least. And when I asked why a certain thread that had some good debate in it was locked, the mod replied about a completely different thread, not the one I was asking about!

What saddens me is so few people have learned how to say "hey, sorry, bygones" and move ON. It's like the Hatfields and McCoys, North and South Ireland, etc.

That's another suggestion for the Mods, get people to shake hands and promise to just drop it, because really it's the same 5 or so people who are constantly niggling each other. It only takes two or more, after all. One person may be guilty of starting it, but everyone's guilty who continues it.

 

Well said cat I totally agree...I wish the mods would do something like what you said. Its so frustrating having your threads and post deleted without any explanation. I think the mods should try and help people settle their differences so we can all go back to motoring :smile:

 

quote
we got your back dude...those hypocrites are making me sick!
quote
Some people make me sick to my stomach!
Charles

_________________
Big shots are only little shots that keep on shooting

 

Wow your sooooo cool charles! We're trying to settle all this and you come to stir up trouble! If your gonna quote me at least have the ***** to say where you got it from ...and use >>... or "..." , quote...quote looks retarded.

 

Quote: "Right now threads are being locked/deleted with very little or no explanation or warning."

The site guidelines state the following rules for "Clean Posting" :

MINI COOPER Online will not tolerate explicit, obscene or vulgar language and will remove any post containing this type of language. Similarly, any post that solicits or offers explicit, X-rated, or similar content will be deleted without notice.

I just looked through the 5 threads in "Under Review" that have been locked/deleted in the past 2 days, and each of them contains content specifically violating the site guidelines for clean posting among as well as some other site guideline violations. So the locks and deletions are very clearly done according to MCO's policy and no warning or explanation is necessary for obvious violations of site guidelines.

I will also apologize here and now for repeating a poster's obscene 4 letter word in one of my responses. I'll try to remember the guidelines too!

The full set of guidelines can be found here MCO Site Guidelines

_________________
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
-George Bernard Shaw

 

OK
Let me deal with this the best I can. I'm not smart, I happen to be from Alabama, I'm a red neck. Been burned already and can't do anything about that. No, you are not trying to settle anything. You go to one site and flame the ---- out of everyone, then come to this site and say hey that's great, come here and say I agree with you why don't they do that. No I'm not so sooooo cool and your not trying to settle all this and I didn't come to stir up trouble! And a quote is a quote. It seems you knew where it came from!
Charles
P.S I have never tried to do anything on this site but be helpful and a positive influence to the site. If the majority of the members say different, I'll go away and I mean that.

_________________
Big shots are only little shots that keep on shooting

 

Cat,
Thanks for your comments. I try to address them the best that I can below...

Mark

>>I'd like to have the option of "ignoring" somebody. It's a cool option. But I find myself reading certain people just to make sure they are what they are. Characters take time to reveal themselves, after all, and we can all have a bad day or a hasty, intemperate post now and again. I myself reserve the right to use the "I just ate a twinkie" or "It's a full moon" defense on occasion.

This capability will be in the next version of the site.

>>
>>All communities go through growing pains, cyber-communities are no exception. That's why a clear reminder as to the purpose and direction of the board and of the online exchanges helps to keep us all on track. Rather than take the side of a person against another person, take the side of the guidelines.

I agree which is why I continually reference them. Like I've mentioned many times before I prefer to give everyone multiple chances because I realize we all have bad days now and then.

>>
>>Right now threads are being locked/deleted with very little or no explanation or warning. It's unsettling to say the least. And when I asked why a certain thread that had some good debate in it was locked, the mod replied about a completely different thread, not the one I was asking about!

Threads are not being deleted. They are being moved to Under Review so that we can have a chance to figure out what to do about them. In order to get moved to Under Review a couple of things have to happen:

1) A user violates one of the posting guidelines
2) Other users complain to myself or other moderators

Typically, if it isn't in a forum I monitor closely I may not see it and depend on other mods to keep an eye out for these issues.

>>
>>What saddens me is so few people have learned how to say "hey, sorry, bygones" and move ON. It's like the Hatfields and McCoys, North and South Ireland, etc.

I agree.

>>That's another suggestion for the Mods, get people to shake hands and promise to just drop it, because really it's the same 5 or so people who are constantly niggling each other. It only takes two or more, after all. One person may be guilty of starting it, but everyone's guilty who continues it.

What's the best way of making this happen? I would prefer not to become mediators as it often ends up putting the moderator or myself in the middle of an argument that we have no ability to determine how to resolve. The only thing I can think of is that the members at the center of a heated discussion receive a PM which simply says:

- review the site guidelines
- edit/delete your posts
- apologize to the other person

Is there a better way to go about this?

Thanks for your feedback!

Mark

 

>>>>What saddens me is so few people have learned how to say "hey, sorry, bygones" and move ON. It's like the Hatfields and McCoys, North and South Ireland, etc.
>>
>>I agree.
>>
>>>>That's another suggestion for the Mods, get people to shake hands and promise to just drop it, because really it's the same 5 or so people who are constantly niggling each other. It only takes two or more, after all. One person may be guilty of starting it, but everyone's guilty who continues it.
>>
>>What's the best way of making this happen? I would prefer not to become mediators as it often ends up putting the moderator or myself in the middle of an argument that we have no ability to determine how to resolve. The only thing I can think of is that the members at the center of a heated discussion receive a PM which simply says:
>>
>>- review the site guidelines
>>- edit/delete your posts
>>- apologize to the other person
>>
>>Is there a better way to go about this?
>>
>>Thanks for your feedback!
>>
>>Mark

Hi Mark!

I think the mods have to become mediators to a certain extent. As I said before, they don't need to say who's right or who's wrong, they merely post the pertinent guidelines within the thread itself. Doing everything by PM obviously is not working. I can guarantee you that no one clicks on the link to read the guidelines. And you can see by the way that Charles quoted rfibanez in this thread that the methods being used certainly are not working. (BTW Charles, bad form. No, I don't want you to leave. But look at your sig - it's very telling. And you always pick on rfibanez. You're one of the Hatfields sweetie, you are you are. And threatening to leave is passive-aggressive.)

If you look in the "Somebody start a fight" thread, the mods contributed like everyone else, and then Ryephile locked it with no explanation as to why. He still has not replied to my PM with clarification as to why. Bad form.

The fact that two mods posted several regular posts in this thread indicates that none of it violated the guidelines, that they condoned the entire thread at least up to that point, don't you think? Or perhaps it means that the mods themselves don't know the guidelines.

So if you have implemented the policy you outline above, this is clear proof the mods are not following it. Then what do you do? Only you can decide.

 

>>OK
>>Let me deal with this the best I can. I'm not smart, I happen to be from Alabama, I'm a red neck. Been burned already and can't do anything about that. No, you are not trying to settle anything. You go to one site and flame the ---- out of everyone, then come to this site and say hey that's great, come here and say I agree with you why don't they do that. No I'm not so sooooo cool and your not trying to settle all this and I didn't come to stir up trouble! And a quote is a quote. It seems you knew where it came from!
>>Charles :smile: