There are two things at play here. One is enough mods and the other is having different kinds of mods. Some like to handle all the little things in keeping the site organized (the majority). Its relatively easy to find people willing and able to do this. What is difficult is finding those that are willing, able, and capable of digging into and dealing with the big problems on the site...like the things we're talking about here.

The mod team has discussed the list of problem users but I'm largely tasked with having to carry the stick.

What I need is this...2-3 people that can be grown into super mods or admins, that are trusted and respected by the majority of the community, and can take whatever measures are necessary in keeping the tone of the site community-like and open.

Mark

 

Oh, no, not the internet police!

 

Yeah, but see how that story just changed? It went from the guy next to you got served a slightly colder beer with an extra shot and suddenly you decided YOU got served a "flat warm" beer.

Perception, perception. Your beer was just fine until the other guy showed up.

And really, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's not intended to be a shot at you specifically. But the point being that what you were getting was just fine, until someone else got something better, and then all hell breaks loose.

If what you got the first time was good enough, then it was good enough. If it wasn't, then don't continue to consume the product.

 

beats the hec out of internet beer

 

No change in the story. The beer is warm and flat.

And we all can't be the same. You might like to turn the other cheek, while someone like me takes a different, more proactive approach. Ralph Nader didn't just stop buying Pintos. He made sure Ford did something about it.

 

Whoa, this thread is starting to seem just like the vendor threads, only going after Mark/Mods instead of talking about the changes that need to be made about NAM.

Here are my personal thoughts on it, take them to heart, forget about them or anywhere in between, they are indeed my opinions, biased and imperfect; but I assure you they have the best intentions behind them.

1. Respect. This site is for people above the age of 13, in most states you've got to be 18 to sign a contract to own your own MINI, and again most places you've got to be at LEAST 15 or 16 to be able to drive. Point being most of us here should be ADULTS decorum and respect should follow as such, many (not necessarily all because without calling them out we may have different people in mind) of those "repeat offenders" don't. And IMO there really shouldn't be all that much of a repeat offender issue, RESPECT is one of the site guidelines that falls under the 2 two strikes rule,get two threads locked for going off on personal attacks, then find somewhere else to go raise trouble or get MINI info. The personal attacks line needs to be drawn and held.

2. The new rule in regard to vendor/community relations. I'm member to a number of forums, with various vendor relation rules. Some sites specifically outlaw and immediately BAN users that talk about competitors products, it's done automatically by keyword software, that includes picking up acronyms in randomly generated links (like the end of a youtube video). Some sites I'm member to went the route of flashing banners with the non forum pages cover 50% or more with vendor ads. Those vendors are not site members, or if they are the spamming rules prohibit them from identifying themselves as such. The fact that the NAM community allows us to communicate not only with vendors but also the designers, manufacturers and engineers is a wonderful resource. Unfortunately, many people have started to abuse this privilege and stopped making the conversations about the products and started making them about the people. The second that change happens in the conversation, these product threads lose all value, and I have agreed with many of the recent threads I've seen locked for that reason; if anything I think the locking was too little too late with some of them. I've no issue when the Moderators keep the performance section threads on topic and on the product and of f the people. The only thing close to a gray area with this is, if you've got an issue with service, contact the vendor yourself or when asked about the service share your experience; such complaints take me back a few years to when Webb Motorsports was difficult to reach, people started making assumptions rumors and attacks instead of staying to facts, which got things out of hand.

3. The review system. It keeps the conversations on the product not the people, which is good; however it is far to tedious/confusing/non user friendly, for me to to be able to ADD a product that I have purchased or used (from NAM vendor or otherwise and there are MINI products not supplied by NAM vendors). It's thought is in the right place, but it's a system that's going to need to grow and refine itself before it is utilized as intended.

4. Attitude. This is were I think the self moderation, that was so touted in the what needs to change on NAM thread, needs to start prevailing. the attitude does ultimately determine who lurks who posts who stays and who goes. I know we've lost many experts doing some wonderful things simply because everybody else thinks they know better and bash those who do anything differently.

5. Don't bait the trolls!!!!!!!!! I cannot stress this enough, if someone starts to needle you, its a computer, close the window walk away, if it's repeated badgering or disrespectful then REPORT THE POST! The ignore list and the icon are there for a reason! Stop feeding the trolls and the breed dies out.

There have been some excellent discussion over the years her on NAM between people with different points of view, and they went unlocked and well unmoderated simply because they stayed within the proper guides of respect and kept the understanding that at the end of the day, we're all enthusiasts and are "on the same team" so to speak.

 

^^^ Spot on

Mark

 

AMEN!!!

 

lol. You people are blind to what is happening here. I don't involve myself in vendor discussions, and I've yet to be ripped off by a vendor. That's not the issue.

THE ISSUE IS THAT THE MANAGEMENT CONTINUALLY SIDES WITH THE MONEY - NOT THE COMMUNITY.

The sad part is that they won't even try to deny it.

But hey, you're all just peachy with that. I'm out.

 

AMEN!!!

 

If I may chime in again. For a second, assuming the "siding with the money" is correct, I refer back to my first post; Then moderate consistently. I could be wrong, but it seems there has been more moderator involvement in this thread than ever hoped to help PU in thousands of bashing posts. But other vendors are protected. Even if what happens is crooked, at least make it consistent.

 

If that was true, would Palo Uber still be a vendor?

Would an Alliance member's opinion be more valued than mine?

I'm sorry but the reason I didn't address this in my last post was it seems simply irrelevant. The rules are there because members refuse to be civil and discuss the products and turn things into a personal battle, that seems to frequently boil itself down to the same issue over and over. The performance part threads (that brought about the announcement) that have been locked are full of personal attacks that reflect poorly on the WHOLE COMMUNITY.

Yes the server space is paid for through a mix of vendors, click through ads, banners and alliance members. Posting on NAM is a privilege as it is any website. This is why there are policies and guidelines that you agree to when you sign up. Just like driving on the public roads, break those rules, get labeled a repeat offender and eventually you will lose your privilege to drive. If you disagree with those policies there are a number of other venues (both internet forums and not) through which you can express yourself.

At no point in any of this has anyone shown me a clear connection that would even hint that the money was motive for a disciplinary decision, and in most of the locked threads it is quite clearly stated the nature of what was removed, or left and locked as a banner of shame amongst the MINI community for all that are so inclined to go read, to see that a blatant lack of respect for the fellow NAM Member and motorer.

What I really don't understand is how this playing by the rules or you'll get in trouble is so well understood on every other forum I'm party to. However NAM seems to regularly gleen complaints from those who are upset that they have to play by the rules, including respect. For reason unclear if not unknown the money is being used as a scapegoat, by nay sayers. If a product thread is closed because a thread goes down hill and a vendor ceases to respond to it; it certainly is not beneficial to a vendor to not be able to discuss their product with members, and receive public hostile comments from those with different personal views while being in front of potential new customers. So the argument of siding with the money seems to be as clear as mud.

 

this implies NAM > members and I assure you that's not the case.

 

It's a forum. Good christ. It's not special. You want help to fix your problem, I offered the solution. But you won't accept it, so, you'll be in this position a year from now, same as you have been forever.

 

Right. And if some people don't care, who are you to try and make them care? That's what I don't understand. I don't get why there are a handful of you, for whom your opinion is so important that the rest of us are idiots for not having the same one. I GET what you think, even if you think I don't...I get it...WE get it. Your opinions are not my opinions; your values are not my values. QUIT trying to make it so. Just because it is not an issue for me does not mean I am blind to it.

The management has the RIGHT to side with the money! Do you think this is just some "for the good of the world" venture?? Are you that naive?

People have been saying the same thing over and over, and yet we still have the same problem - it seems to be so much easier to complain than to just leave and take your money and insight and whatever else to somewhere you feel more comfortable. We will all be just fine without your input. You think it's terrible here, because of the way the vendors are handled, and because you think 99% of the posters here are stupid. Faaaaaaantastic. Then go somewhere else.

Bottom line - it's a private business, they are allowed to serve whomever they see fit, however they see fit, and the customers that are happy stick around and those that aren't cruise along to find someplace else to go.

The irony is that those of you stirring up the trouble HAVE a place to go, and you all spend a staggering amount of time there complaining about how much you hate NAM and the moderators and the "stupid" members. I don't understand why you insist on coming back to a forum you spend so much time complaining about elsewhere.

We clearly do not agree on what (who) the problem truly is.

 

Not in the slightest. It implies NAM is a private entity, that choses not to exist in anarchy. Same rules apply over at M|U

95% of the time I've found NAM is more than willing to allow people to keep posting their diverse views, as long as it is done respectfully.

It's ten simple rules, if you can't play by them than hang out somewhere else.

 

You guys are too much.

Seems like you've got it all figured out, eh? NAM's just great, huh? Then please explain to me why we're being implored to help Mark figure out a way to solve his problem?

You'll note that you've never seen me bash anyone here, so don't just "lump" me in with the world as you see it. Further, I'm the least naive person you know, so bite your tongue.

I think it's so funny that you all want to refute what I've been saying, yet the beat goes on, and on, and on, and on.

Clearly, you know more than I do. What the **** was I thinking offering suggestions? Why, you've got it all figured out! Cheers

 

I'd PAY to see some of the NAM vendors come over to a non-sponsored site and try the crap they pull here. That would last about .2 seconds.

 

I guess for the same reason you are busy reading the forum that you obviously despise so. I guess we could be spending that staggering amount of time trying to pick names for our cars. But to each their own. At least those of us you're pointing the finger at are brave enough to come onto what repeatedly appears to be a hostile territory and voice our opinions, instead of just being a lurker.

I have to ask, besides telling some of us to go away, do you have any suggestions? There is very little constructive in your post.

 

Never said it was anything more than a forum

And these threads really do seem to be boiling down to trolling with such motives......
(following links NSFW)
http://mininuts.com/forum/index.php?a=forum&f=2
in particular
http://mininuts.com/forum/index.php?a=topic&t=1851
(but uhh you're here to help save us from our "problem" right?)

So with that I'll start to follow this (taken from another automotive forum) now:

 

Sorry but we have more Laws in this country than anytime in our history and it has not reduced the amount of criminals we have. More rules, more mods will not stop folks from exercising their egos. Find a way to gently dissuade them from bickering and stick to a friendly exchange of ideas, knowledge and experiences and we will have the kind of place we all want. Actually for me when some vendors start sniping back and forth it can give you a true insight into who you really are dealing with. In extreme cases with members and vendors give them the boot. Just my 2 cents.

 

If you don't find that your "fearless leader" is more concerned about his bank account than the content and quality of his site, and the people who visit it IS A PROBLEM, then you're a fool.

Oh, since you want to call people out, what's my post count there, genius? Join date?

Yeah. Thought so.

 

All of my suggestions have been made to those who make decisions about them, via PM.

Have a nice night, boys

 

No, see, you're remiss. There *is* no problem. Shhhhhhh. It'll all go away if you ignore it.

 

lololol...so, then, the lip imprint on your sig matches the one on Mark's a$$?

Just curious...