As I feel the finger point at me just a little bit, I would encourage the use of search function. Go back all the way to where I supported the vendor that I now take to task. Then ask yourself what happened. Quiet a few here have met me. I am crass, opinionated and swear like a sailor. But I am fair and honest enough that I would not ride someone's *** if it was not deserved many times over.

 

I don't believe that anyone is pointing at you. However, it would seem every time I find a controversial thread, you're in the thick. That's not to say that you aren't right. However, by your own admission:
You could employ a bit more tact. It's your lack thereof that detracts from your credibility.

 

I am not pointing the finger at just you. There is a vendor on here that I think is total crap too. I wrote a review for them to that effect. Now I'm done. If anyone ever has a bad problem with a vendor & gets pounced on by that vendor's "fanboys" as you guys call them for daring to say anything negative I find the PM system more effective to share my experiences with the person getting pounced on by the fanz. I have learned from past experience that me posting more negative stuff in the thread would just start a war. I'm not saying it's right that the fanboys should get the most say on everything & maybe it is perpetuating false positive info a bit but I just find that sharing my negative experience privately with the person seeking advise works better for me than me posting the same negative happening over & over again publicly, that's all I got

 

Umm yeah, Jerry, my finger it is pointed somewhat at you. When M7 says they are going to show data, go in the thread once and ask when. Maybe two or three others will say the same "Yeah like the last data we never saw" too once. But then leave it. Thats what happens in RMW's threads. How long between updates do we go sometimes, a month or more.

Sure, they do deserve a greater level of criticism. But lets all find that point where it is still criticism and not a whole group raping and pillaging the thread. Let it stay informative, even if the info is there is no info.

 

I call foul. You need to leave me something. You can't just do your own jokes.

 

Unfortunately, some of us have raping and pillaging in our blood, it's sometimes hard to restrain hundreds of years of conditioning. We haven't always been this civilized.

 

And some of us are just wild wolves who will not let go until the meat is off the bone, the marrow is sucked out and what's left is of no use to anyone else.

I hear and appreciate everyone's comments. However I find nothing to be apologetic for. Those who have incurred my anger deserved it. I do not act harshly without a forethought and never without giving the target several chances.

 

I see this happening also. Specific threads get targeted by a particular group (c'mon we know who you are), they continue until they totally PO a mod or two & then gleefully return to their peanut site & post rude, obscene remarks about specific persons here on NAM. It's too bad, they have to hide behind their numerous screen names like a bunch of preschoolers who think they are pulling the wool over teacher's eyes. Perhaps we should send all of them knitting needles, sharpened of course. Give them something to do in their spare time.

Lois

 

That one is new to me. Who are we talking about with the numerous screen names? I for one have had the same screen names since I can remember. Long before NAM. I assume by the peanut site you refer to Mininuts? Obviously the content offends your puritanical values. Then why visit? Keep the needles. But if you have any beer and hot chicks, we would be greatful.

 

At least quote me right...

Sure do your own jokes...do them every time Peter says he's got something new. Ask about it. But ask once and wait...when there is not reply in a reasonable, say 3 business days, time ask again. But we all need not jump on it too. What do you expect from Peter when a mob has him circled with sharp sticks and lit torches. Send a single sniper for a precision hit, not a lynch mob.

Try the veal...we left off the fresh diced tomatoes this week, don't want to kill the patrons.

 

Reminds me of the scene in Goldfinger with James Bond strapped to the tables and the laser creeping up to his crotch:

Bond: "Do you expect me to talk?"
Goldfinger: "No, Mr Bond! I expect you to die! "

 

You have to understand that it is summer, my kids are off from school, we are in the process of selling our house and moving later this summer, etc. so while I may not be posting I am reading everyone's posts.

Look...I really want to do the right thing for everyone involved. I want members to be able to give criticism to vendors so that they improve, I want vendors to make and deliver the products that members want. To date we have allowed a lot of dissent to be aired on the site (and its still online). What I've finally gotten sick of is not that people are complaining about M7 but how its been done. It feels like a coordinated attack, entertainment oriented, and isn't focused on getting the vendor to improve...just focused on seeing how far a thread can be pushed, how much other members can be angered, how many members can be driven away...seeing how far the mod team can be pushed.

In this thread I've seen a lot of talk about what is wrong and not a lot about concrete steps on how to fix the issues. Is there a method that could be implemented to provide constructive negative feedback to vendors so that people could easily find it? Is there a policy on how this could be submitted so that it doesn't look like constant bashing?

I'm only one person and I while I'm good at taking constructive feedback I need some actionable ideas, proposals, and concepts to work on. Frankly I would like to have members and vendors run this process and set a standard for the community. In other words, use the power and group intellect of the entire community.

I'd like to see something positive happen that would benefit everyone involved while keeping things civil. Is this even possible with the wide variety of emotions, personalities, and backgrounds on the site?

Is anyone really up to a challenge like this and do it without a personal agenda? If so, I'm all ears and will support it however I can.

Mark

 

Puritanical, I'm not. Slanderous comments, I take offense to. And I'll keep my beer for my friends.

 

Fair enough. But what about the hot chicks? Say hi to Clo for me.

 

Only Midwest farmers' daughters here

 

I think a big step in the right direction would be to improve the vendor review & rating system. I have written 2 reviews but when I click on reviews I only see one vendor I reviewed & it is very confusing as to if I am viewing actual "vendor" reviews or "product" reviews. I know there is some way to hunt around & find the other vendor I reviewed but it just shouldn't be that hard to find because that means someone researching a vendor will have a difficult time. It would also be nice if they had stars instead of just numerical rating values by their names. I know it's cheesy & a small thing but the stars stand out & are easier to spot than some number lost in a bunch of other words.

I think if the vendor review system stood out & was more prominent perhaps people would be more content with leaving one scathing review on a product or vendor than feeling the need to repeatedly dog them.

This ******* vs fanboys is a double edged sword because I just read a thread where a guy had a horrible experience with a vendor. Why did he use that vendor?? because he had read nothing but glowing love & praise for them throughout NAM & thought they must be perfect. Why are negative comments rarely made on NAM about that vendor?? because when ever any of us who think badly of them dare to ever mention our bad experiences we get jumped all over by people saying "how dare you! this vendor walks on water! you are crazy!". & such

It's a fine line. I don't know how it can be fixed but that's all I got

 

I offer no solutions, but a comment. I have been going at M7 for longer than I care to remember. So have others before me and some science. Many worthy and knowledgeable people who contributed on regular bases to this forum have been bashed and ran off this site by the M7 "supporters". Can you honestly say that there has been any change in the way Horvath conducts business? At least from behind my keyboard his approach just seems to be to either wait it out, keep his head down when the dissent rises, let his shills do the dirty work and once the loud voices get banned and the dust settles he reappears none worth for wear with a new sales pitch. How many times have you yourself seen the same 3-4 people open threads which were nothing more than thinly veiled product announcements? Just check my previous posts in this thread? Is it really necessary to have two threads about installing the same part on the same car? One from the installer and one from the customer?

Bottom line is, you can't expect behavioral changes from people if the source of their anger shows none himself.

 

Oh yeah? How much for the little girl? Your women, I want to buy your women!

 

I will echo that. I tried to use the vendor review when it first came out, but found it worthless. The interaction is confusing, the ratings are nonsensical and more importantly it is hard to find on front page. I think NAM has a responsibility to its membership to make the vendor review more prominent and easier to find.

 

I agree. I was dumped on by a NAM vendor several years ago. Other than gripping about it in a thread, I had no other recourse. Perhaps, a system similar to what Amazon has would be good. A rating & a comment. One time only.

Lois

 

One more review thing... I also think one review per user name per vendor & one review per user name per product should be enforced. That way one hater can't come in & falsely drive a vendors rating down & one fanboy can't falsely drive their rating up


ETA: great minds

 

Mark,

After reading the the posts in this thread and yours above, I think of it as a bit of "riot control". Let there be protests and and hard questions, as long as it remains civil.
I have to admit, I did not follow the more/less moderation thread of a year ago. But in what I see, more moderation of the softer kind might be an option. By stepping in often enough and quickly enough to keep the crowds under control, yet not let them get out of hand, they can shake their fists and speak their peace without anarchy. This is not pointed only at M7, since they've been mentioned, as there has been other vendor spats as well.
I think a level playing field for everyone, with accountability for everyone, vendors and users alike, would stop the fires that seem to erupt.

 

How about adding a manual review? Let's face it, with the high school cafeteria clicks that exist on NAM it wouldn't be hard to scrounge up enough people to make a difference one way or the other if it goes unchecked.

 

Having a blonde moment What do you mean by manual review?

 

Sanity check by a live person to make sure there isn't a concentrated group effort to alter the results.