Anyone using them this season? How do you like them? What pressures are you running? Thanks.

 

Some of the folks who tested them during production recommended running slightly lower pressures than you may have run on S03 or S04s. Of course, two of the top autocrossers in Minis run wildly different pressures on the same tire and seem to both get good results, so you may have to just see what feels best to you. We tested the S05 against S03s on asphalt and found the S05 to be faster.

As far as I know, nobody's had the chance to really test the S05 on concrete, which is where prior models tended to be fastest as compared to the Kumhos and which is the surface on which Nationals is run.

Jeff Jacobs

 

On my Miata I ran the 03s at around 36# and the 04s from 38 to 46#, without stick. I was told 50# worked better. I run mainly on asphalt. Do you think the lower range or higher range for the 05s? Thanks.

 

I'll say higher. Garfield will tell you lower. You should start at 45 in the front and then try 50 and then try 40 and see what feels better to you. Same thing with the rear, start at 40, then try 5 lbs higher and 5lbs lower. But only adjust one end at a time.

 

They seem like about the same pressure as the 04's, maybe a little less (couple pounds) but I'm still leary about that.

I've only ran them at two events (April 3 & 10) both on grippy asphalt.

They stick WAY better than 04's cold and just get better when hot.

note: I'm a single drver car right now so I don't know if the 04's overheat issues have carried over.

If you've ever driven a well prepped Celica you'll now run #1 is always an adventure, not on the 05's, just attack.

O the 05's like the 04's like a little less camber, not that you guys have enough anyway.

April 3 (Index results)
P1 on S04's
P2 & 3 on 710's
P5, 6 & 7 on S05's)

April 10 (Index results)
P1, 3, 8 & 11 on S04's
P2, 4 & 5 on 710's
P6, 7 & 9 on S05's

Both courses were not GS friendly.

 

The pressures seem to work, and should work the same as the S04, since they have the same carcas.

Unfortunately Mark, that's not what I felt today. The S05's went away after TWO runs. The fronts felt greasy after two Pro Solo runs in 70 degree weather. I only ran .2 seconds faster in the afternoon on S05's after I ran the 45 degree morning on R3S04's, and that was on the first run. I then ran .1 faster on the other side, then same as the morning, then .2 slower...
We'll start tomorrow in the cold and see what they're like, but I hate to say it, I may run a "cold weather set" (S05) of tires and a "warm weather set" (RS04).

This tire situation could not be more confusing, and if people ask, I'll try to help, but I'll never claim to be completely accurate. Everybody has different styles.
The rest later...

Brian

 

As you will see from the results, what I expected was true. The S05 goes away very quickly in any warmth on the MINI. But, in the 45 degree weather of Sunday morning, they were fast and stuck well. Believe it or not, in the cold, they actually started to go away by the last turn of my fourth run. The problem is clearly the lack of camber on the MINI, the weight, and being FWD that the tires can't handle. Most cars running S05's didn't notice the loss of grip like we did.
With very limited time on the tire, this is my opinion:
The tires will be very fast, possibly the fastest tire, with a single driver at a Tour event, needing to be sprayed liberally for two drivers at a Tour.

So it's clear, my MINI is completely stock, no options, 14lb Enkei RPO-1's, 1/8 toe-out in front, 1/8 toe-in in the rear.

Whoops, almost forgot: The Atlanta Pro was on asphalt, 45 degree mornings, 70 degree afternoons.
I ran 53psi front and 55-57psi rear.

Brian

 

Stock shocks?

 

Yep.

 

I autocross in Reno on asphalt where the temperatures are 80 or above, with a two driver car. Sounds like these will be terrible. Are people autocrossing on the R tires instead of the A tires in order to get a compund that doesn't go away as quickly? If so, are they competitive in auto-x?

 

I'm a single driver car running R3s04's. While I might be at a slight disadvantage against the "A" compound people I cannot justify the expense of changing tires after a couple events. I'm doing well enought to win my class locally. My experience level doesn't warrent their use. If I were within .5 after two days then I might be able to blame the tires, this is not the case. Until then practice, practice, practice.

I have 27 runs including the Pro in Fontana, and the Tour in San Diego and will be running them in Atwater this weekend. I will flip them prior to the Tour there, not that they need it, I'm just playing it safe. Temps have been 60-65 so far this year.

 

Brian --

Haven't seen it said. So, congrats on the Atlanta pro solo. By no means an easy win -- anyting but. When you get a chance let us know your thoughts on the factory LSD.

Toma

 

I'll tell you this:
Against the grain, I've been running Road Race Hoosiers since 2002 with GREAT success, always with two drivers at National events. The R3S03 worked well and lasted as much as 60 runs.
Unfortunately last year, there was an issue with the R3S04, and they corded very quickly. But, before the Pro Finale, they had said they fixed the problem so I got another set.
Well, here's the stats on that set:
Pro Finale: 24 dry runs
March Local event: 8 cold wet runs
Practice: 15 cold dry runs
Atlanta Pro: 12 cold
Atlanta Pro: 8 warm

So that's 71 runs, and they haven't been FLIPPED yet! Now, if you take into account the cold runs, the wet runs, and the fact that many are 30 second Pro Solo runs, let's call it 40 runs in the warmth. Still, before being flipped. This tire is easily a 60 dry run tire. Obviously I have no way to determine how much less stick there is at this point, but in Atlanta, I ran them Saturday morning, in the cold, and was still in second place on the R's.

They obviously improved the tire, it's fast, and it lasts. Now, is it the stickiest? No, but close enough for most people and a great tire for the Pros 4 run format.

The LSD? Great on fast open courses, but get used to feathering the throttle a little as the courses get tighter. It does work, but you still have to know when to keep your foot out of it.

Brian

 

Congratulations Brian!

Curt B.

 

BGarfield, I infer from your post that the Rs hold up better in higher temperatures (since they're designed for extended heat conditions and have lasted so long for you). Have they ever gotten "greasy" autocrossing? Under what conditions? I've always liked the pre-04 Hoosier autocross tires on our Miata and Super Seven but suspect that I'm not going to be happy with the 05s, I hated the '04s. Will see how they compare with the Kumho V710s that I have back ordered. My first event is this weekend, the weather's been fairly cold and we're running in the morning so maybe we'll be O.K. This year I'm going to keep a record of the track surface temperatures, which is something I haven't done in the past. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

Lefty, the ONLY time I've ever gotten Road Race compounds greasy was at the Peru Pro Solo last year. It was very hot if I recall, I got into the Challenge and made it to the finals. At that point, the rounds get closer together, so it didn't surprise me. But, I sprayed them and they worked fine.

The later R3S04 is definitely better than any of the earlier '04s.
I can assure you that the R3S04 will handle the heat a lot better than the V710. As for the S05 vs. V710, I'm going to guess that the S05 is stickier, and the V710 handles the heat a little better.
It appears that the V710 will last longer because of their construction and where the car wears them. The S05's were definitely shredding the shoulder again.

Glad I can help.
Brian

 

Is there an R3S05? If so, how does it compare with the 04? Will you be getting them?

 

No. Nothing has been anounced about the R's .
https://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm

 

Actually, it's not that nothing has been announced, it's that nothing is changing.
The R3S04 construction changed late season last year, it's not changing for now.
So, the 2005 tires are:
R3S04
A3S05
This might make it easier to refer to the different compounds, simply 04 or 05.

Brian

 

Thanks, again.

 

Till the 06 hits the market

don't worry that won't be for awhile, maybe Runoff's

 

Ran my new, heat cycled, 16", A3S05s this weekend. Asphalt course and fairly cold conditions, temperature never over 60, asphalt never warmer than 93 deg., winds up to 30 mph. Two driver GS on 52-55 second courses. Tire pressures 53-60 psi (fronts), rears 5 to 10 psi higher. The front tires were corded on the outside edges after 25 runs. I certainly can't afford a set of tires for every race weekend. After cording I ran them at 50#, front and 60# rear and had my best times.

The rears are hardly worn, at all.

I guess I'll try the R3S04s if my Kumho V710s aren't in, yet. Anyone tried the Avon Tech Rs for autocrossing?

Geez, I used to be able to get almost a full season on 15" Victorace on our Miata (two drivers).

 

Let me see if I understand you correctly:
You corded the front tires only, after 25 runs? Well that aint too shabby if you weren't rotating the tires. That means by moving the fronts to the back and visa versa, you'll get about another 20 runs until they're all corded = 45. Then, you flip them and get another 40-45?
That can't be right, if it is, you found a miracle set.
Am I misunderstanding you?

Did you find that you were severely cutting an angle at the shoulder of the tire? That's the way mine wore so far.
When you say 53-60psi, was the 60 hot pressures and the 53 cold?

Every weekend? I don't see too many autocrossers getting 25 runs per weekend, if you are, then yes you will have to start buying a couple of tires per weekend.
Anyhow, if you are only running these at local events/practice/etc., I would definitely run the R3S04's, not the A's.
The Avon's are fine, not quite as sticky as the A's, but fine.

You're Miata had loads of negative camber, BIG difference in tire wear. Plus, Victoracers are practically bulletproof on cars with camber, heck, even ones without.

Brian

 

53 was the starting cold pressure and 53-60 the hot pressures. Yes the cording was at the very edge. I should have swapped front to back as the backs have little wear, had I known I'd get so little time on them. Is it legal to run corded tires (if they are remounted to the inside)? The right front has the steel belts frayed, it looks like a wire brush. Unfortunately it doesn't look like Kumho has any tires in stock to replace these. If I have to go to Hoosiers again I'll definitely get the Rs. How often to they need to be rotated/remounted?

 

So essentially, you went well beyond simply cording the tire then. Nonetheless, you got a crapload of runs out of the tire. It makes me believe that although mine are well worn on the shoulders, there's more rubber left. I'll still have them flopped for Oscoda though, but maybe afterwards I'll run them some more.

On the autocross compounds at a Pro, we rotate them front to rear for each driver, simply for more even wear, and to ensure we don't cord during the event. But, for a local event, we'd run two drivers 4 runs each (8 total) and just wait for the next event to rotate them.
At some point, you start seeing the mirage of cord on the shoulder, that's a good indication to have them flipped inside-out to finish their life. Sometimes you feel like you're doing it prematurely, but what's a couple of runs vs. possible explosion.

Legal? No, not legal to start an event on corded tires. When you pull out depends on who's watching. Locally, I've run corded tires on the rear plenty of times, they're just getting dragged around back there anyway and I wouldn't consider it unsafe. But on the front, I may run a few runs the day they cord, but I'd never start an event when they're corded.

Brian