http://www.solomatters.com/street_ca...moves_for_2015

Thoughts? A lot of other potential top dogs coming in, but the ones I mentioned are (IMO) the most "relevant"

Fiesta has gobs more torque, and honestly I think it has the potential to raw time it's big brother. The Si is another strong challenger, 200hp and a mechanical LSD up front.

Do we have still have a shot in HS, or is time to pack up (/switch cars) or move to STF?

 

My buddy has the FiST and runs stock. There are a couple HS coopers and DS cooper s's that also run in our region. I run DSP. I'm pretty green to AutoX so I'm not the best example. But he consistantly beats the Cooper and Cooper S's in raw time. With a decent driver in the Ford, I don't think there is much of a chance to beat the FiST. As there aren't very many Si's that run, so I can't say how well they are stacked against the HS cars.

 

With everybody on "street" tires next year, I think the Minis still have a shot in their respective stock classes...

 

well they've never had a shot in DS, GS maybe.. HS, not so sure. we've all been on street tires since this year

 

I wouldn't necessarily go selling my car because of the class shakeups. But there should be some more competition in HS now other than just minis.

 

Two local Fiesta St's are faster than my Roadster S, two Hardtop S's, and the former Toyota king of GS. And they haven't done anything to the cars while running Federals up front and OEM tires on the rear.

 

It's important to note that the higher powered cars (like the FiST) tolerate poor driving better because you can use the power to cover up your mistakes. Overcook a corner? That's ok just romp back on the gas. Overslow for a corner? Floor it in the following straight section. In a mini if you mess up corner entry/exit you really pay for it in the following straight sections. In the FiST it's not as big of a deal. So an average driver in a FiST is going to be faster than an average driver in a mini. However at the real pointy end I think the cars should be pretty comparable. Greg Reno crushed this year in HS and would have been 5th in GS right behind the 2013 GS national champ.

 

So how does the scca determine which category to put cars into? I was looking through the list of cars that got moved and it seems like there isn't really any sort of rhyme or reason to it.

 

I'm with Squamish. I don't really understand the rating system. I've only auto crossed twice now. Great fun. Saving for track tires but will probably stay stock. Do sway-bars count as a mod to change from stock grade. We're in the GS category.
Hey Squamish, I'm from your neck of the woods a few years ago on Whidbey.

 

There is a method to the madness. Its mostly focused on vehicle weight, power, drive wheels, and wheel width. If you look at categories you'll generally see similar cars grouped together. The latest set of proposed moves intended to move some of the slower GS cars down to HS in order to make them competitive again and introduce some diversity into the class. If you are puzzled by a particular car classing post up and we can discuss it.

Sounds like you should spend some time with the rule book or just talking to someone who is well versed in the classing. Its not really that hard to understand. Running in G Street means you can replace one sway bar. You can also do a catback exhaust and shocks. Read the rule book section on street class modifications and it'll spell out what is legal in the class.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using NAMotoring

 

FYI..
3.2 VEHICLE CLASSIFICATION
New car makes, types and models will be classified by the SEB (SOLO® EVENTS BOARD) as soon as sufficient information is available to do so. The SEB may reclassify a car within the 12-month period following its initial classification, without the approval of the Board of Directors. “Initial classification” includes the addition of a new listing on an exclusion list. Initial classification is inclusive of a new listing on an exclusion list.

As a snapshot...
2014 Rules
Found Under...
D Street class (DS)
MINI
Clubman JCW (2009-14)
Clubman S (2008-14)
Cooper JCW (2006-14)
Cooper JCW Coupe (2013-14)
Cooper JCW Roadster (2012-14)
Cooper S (2002-14)
Cooper S Coupe (2013-14)
Cooper S Roadster (2012-14)

Not eligible for the Street Category:
MINI Cooper S JCW (2002-05)

Excluded from Street Category for reasons of stability:
MINI Countryman

G Street class (GS)...
Ford
Fiesta ST (2014)
Focus ST (2013-14)

H Street class (HS)
MINI
Clubman (non-S, non-JCW)(2008-14)
Cooper (non-S, non-JCW)(2002-14)
Cooper Coupe (non-S, non-JCW) (2012-14)
Cooper Roadster (non-S, non-JCW) (2012-14)

Ford
Fiesta (non-ST) (1976-80, 2011-14)
Focus (non-ST) (2013-14)

Just a snap Shot of the classes for MINI stacked up against the Fords since they were mentioned...

I thought Last Year (2013) all the MINIs were lumped under HS, where as 2012 they were separated much like they are listed here.

Now I'm thinking how they have us running at Susquehanna ...

Motor on!

 

Base model and S minis have always been separated.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using NAMotoring

 

i think i agree with your more or less here. at the pointy end, things will probably be close. for the average driver, probably faster in a FiST or Si as far as raw time goes. That said, we've yet to see a well prepped stock FiST driven by one of the faster drivers.. time will tell.

 

I just see that some of the cars moved down like was mentioned in kyoo's post with 200 hp or so but the Volks GTI 1.8t was left behind. Don't get me wrong i'm not complaining, just wondering how it is all worked out. I am only on my second season of racing so it doesn't matter to me, it's just fun to go out and rip around the cones!

 

Its done by the SAC (Street Advisory Comitte), about 6 guys. The SAC makes recommendations to the Solo Events Board (SEB), another 6 guys. To get on one of these you probably have to be a well know competitor of some years. Talking to members of the SAC is very illuminating if you ever get the chance.

There's been quite a few comments from SAC members in the SCCA's forums (http://www.sccaforums.com). They're trying to explain the rationale behind their decisions. They use whatever rationale they feel like, but they have been saying that cheaper and more popular (with members) cars are classed "more favorably". A SAC/SEB decision can elevate a car to "must have" status or relegate it to irrelevancy.

My theory about the shuffle is they're trying to speed up HS, to give the MINI some competition. Which probably annoys the owners of slower cars which keep saying the MINI should be moved to GS. It did seem that HS was lower powered normally aspirated cars, but the Fiesta ST brekas that mold. Personally, I think the Fiesta is a car too far, and was quite suitable for GS. But then I have a vested interest in this.

If you do disagree with anything the SAC/SEB or any other committee does, you should write them a letter. The interface is at http://crbscca.com The committees take note of the weight of correspondence on any issue. If no one complains, they think they're doing it right.

 

Thanks for that explanation. I'm going to fill out that letter for sure!

 

Of course, if you do wrote a letter, you should put it in terms the SAC will appreciate. Rather than "this is bad for me", you need to have a letter like "this is bad for the sport", if you can give them facts and figures to back that up, even better.

 

I believe you could option the GTI with an actual mechanical LSD which is why it was left in GS.

 

i think that's becoming a weaker and weaker argument.. isn't the FoST NOT coming with an LSD one of the reasons it was put into GS instead of DS? but the srt4 acr remains, and the ms3 was moved down. i think that should matter less than how fast the car overall is, but that's just me.

 

I agree. I think the FoST should have been a DS car. I wrote my letter. The SAC saw differently...

 

I read the very long thread started by Kyoo on SCCA forums and then added this:

1. Cars are classified in considerable part according to their popularity with participants as measured by number of entries at Nationals.
2. Cars are chosen for development in large part by consideration of where they are classed and available contingency.
3. See number 1.

I've known past and current members of the SAC and SEB. There is a refreshingly honest statement of intent about these classification moves at SOLOMATTERS. This move was done in an unusual manner without input from the membership. Let's not forget that these are the same people who decided last year to eliminate HS entirely until the membership objected.

I got out of HS last year when I learned that it was considered "irrelevant."

 

IF the MINI is truly buried in HS with the FiST and Si, I'll just add a set of IE fixed camber plates and put Swift Spec-R springs on my Konis and call it a day. A very streetable, yet still competitive mild STF build.

 

i probably won't even upgrade the springs lol, personally i'd just run in stf with the camber plates

it's gonna be a funny day if the data ever shows that HS (with fist and civic si) are equal or faster than stf

 

I do find it sort of entertaining that STF is the second slowest class in auto-x. They were only 3 tenths of a second faster than HS at 2014 Nats. Apparently camber/power/weight loss don't really matter that much

 

I don't have JCW stuff.

I have run times within .3 sec. of Nick and Ryan (Teal MINI - which has just been replaced with a Focus ST) on OEM Sport Suspension springs whereas they had all the goodies... As you saw from Lincoln.

I only recently put OTS Koni Singles on it (July 2014).

I just learned today that the fixed IE camber plates, after settling and finding a home, are within +/- 1/16" (or 1.5mm) of OEM ride height. That's imperceptible. If that's the case, I'd forego the Swift springs as they're not all that stiff compared to what a proper STF build should use (i.e. 600lbs./in), and just add the plates should I do a mild STF build.

Or I could do nothing and just change the class magnet.

As for STF being slow, I will admit that doing too much doesn't help. Both Joe Austin, whom I know very well, and my friend Jeff Yatsko, who has a Mazda2 have a fair amount of development in them at this stage, and I can't say they're blisteringly fast (like the STC Civics are). So, perhaps less is more regarding STF.