Does anyone have opinions about brakes for autocross-exclusive applications?

 

My opinion is, not only are they unnecessary in Stock, but changing the pads often worsens your ability to threshold brake.
Add in the negative cost (as opposed to 0$) and they've never struck the right cord with me.

For modified classes where bigger rotors and calipers are allowed, again you shoot yourself in the foot. Larger brakes won't enable you to run as small a diameter of wheel as you'd like. Add in extra unsprung weight, and the seldom examples of overheated brakes in autocross, and it's another NO for me.

Now, I'm able to make these claims since we're talking about a car that has perfectly fine brakes (like a Miata). If this car didn't brake in the top percentage, I could see making a slight change.

In a sport where somewhat erratic reactions are part of the strategy, I wouldn't want brakes to grip any quicker.

Brian

_________________
2002 SCCA Pro Solo H Stock Champion/ STX Cooper S in 2003/G Stock Cooper S in 2004. Moderator: PRO SOLO and G STOCK
garfield@northamericanmotoring.com

 

>>Does anyone have opinions about brakes for autocross-exclusive applications?

I think that BGarfield makes good points.

If you talk to Randy Webb and Eric Savage I think you will find that there are many options other than keeping things stock.

True if you are going to run your MC in H stock or MCS in G-stock you need to keep your brakes stock- but can you replace the brake fluid with something like ATE Super Blue which has a higher boiling temp? That would help reduce brake fade from the brakes. This is a bigger deal with track sessions that with the short 1 minute runs x 4 with autocross.

If you can upgrade brakes in your class then one option are the various stage one upgrades.
If you have to change brake pads only and you are limited to autocross then the Mintex Redbox or EBC green might be a cheap option better than stock but not only for track use so you can street drive with them.

Better brake fluid is good and the better rotor would be Power Slot rotors. They cost more though.

You can change to stainless steel brake lines but the pedal feel might be a bit firmer. If you rather leave the stock lines in then the pedal feel is closer to stock.

Both Eric and Randy Autocross- give them a call.

Big brake kits? Save your money.

 

I should have been more specific in my initial post, but your responses are excellent. I was interested primarily in pads. I've used the Ferodos for track days and they work great, but over time, I've come to decide that their effectiveness when cold is significantly less than it should be (and noticeably less than stock). I'm going to need some new pads, so I was wondering if anyone was running with EBCs, Mintexes or stock and wanted to discuss. I'm leaning hard toward Mintex "Red Box" right now, incidentally.

 

OK, thanks for the clarification. I spoke to Eric from Helix13 about this about a month ago.

I would recommend Mintex redbox and ATE superblue brake fluid in your case.
I have both plus rotors and brakelines. Stopping power is better than stock right from the start and brake fading is minimized.

Since autocross is so short the high temperature track pads are at a disadvantage. You are not doing laps for 20 minutes. The pads don't get up hot enough to do their best.

In autocross you do just one run of about 1 minute then cool down until your next run. EBC green pads are also OK and used by some with reasonable results but I like mintex because the price is pretty good.

 

For an autocross specific application I would stay stock.... the only advantage I can see to going aftermarket is less brake dust (depending on the pad you choose)...

Tires make a MUCH MUCH bigger differnence in stoping distance ... so keep that in mind....

 

Autox requires a pad that functions well at low temperatures. Stock pads are designed to do so. As Brian said, it's good to have a pad that is progressive in application and release. Stock pads are good in this area as well. I have a set of Porterfield R4-S on the front of my WRX and they work very well. They're easier to modulate than the stock Subaru pads and they function better. For that car, it was an improvement for autox.

Changing the brake fluid is a good idea because it absorbs moisture, which lowers the boiling point. I prefer Motul 600. Don't go to DOT5. The benefits don't outweigh the hassle.

Note that EBC is advertising new compounds for 04. You may wish to make sure you're not getting the old compound. Ferodo DS2500 is advertised as a greater coefficient of friction when cold than the EBC Green Stuff, for what it's worth. I'll probably go with Ferodo when changing over to braid steel brake lines.

 

Thanks for the advice all. I'm probably going to switch to the Mintex "Red Box" in the near future. My original stocks are almost shot from two track days and the Ferodos I've got on now definitely do not have the raw grip when cold of the stocks. DWC, I would strongly recommend against switching to the 2500s for AutoX. If you're talking about track days however, then I would wholeheartedly agree.

Cheers!

 

So, Chitown, the Ferodo's don't have the initial bite. That's dissappointing. I've heard a lot about inconistancy with the EBCs. If the 2500's are too slick, I may just stick with the stocks until they wear out or a better "street" pad becomes available. Maybe it's time to start quizzing Red Box owners?

 

Originally, when I put the Ferodos on, I felt that there bite when cold was nearly as sharp as the stocks. But I feel like they're sort of (for lack of a better word) fading, the longer I've had them on. They're still great for true "hot" fade resistance (a la road courses), but I recently got stuck in a Cooper loaner for three weeks and was amazed at the grabbiness of the brakes: a huge difference. It is DEFINITELY time to start quizzing Redbox users!