ok so what's everyone doing in 2012? Was the JCW suspension worth it?

Anyone going to a huge rear bar?

 

I am a recent convert from years in a Miata. I've only driven my MINI at one event (In the rain) and it pushed like crazy. I just ordered an Rspeed 22mm rear bar and I have high hopes for nice neutral cornering in combination with the stock sport suspension.
I'd love to hear what the experienced folks are finding is the fastest setup.

 

The 22 mm bar will add a lot to the ability to move the back around but it will not do anything to improve the grip of the front. To do this, you will need 2 things: camber plates, either fixed or adjustable and wheels with less offset than the stock wheels. As for camber plates the Ireland Eng fixed were nice and would give about -1.6 deg camber. With stock springs you can only get about -2 deg before the springs hit so this makes the fixed plates nice over the more expensive adjustables. I found that the reduced offset wheels (17" w/43 mm offset) eliminated the tire rollover that I was experiencing with the stock wheel. I think this is legal in STX.

My experience was with 43mm offset wheels, a 20 mm Whiteline RSB and the IE fixed plates and the push was almost gone. This was in an S with the stock suspension, not the sport. This would have been much better with sport suspension with the tighter shocks and large front sway bar. The thing that I would have liked was a limited slip dif.

Was I the fastest with my setup? No, but I did have fun.

Just a word of caution, if you plan to track the car the 22mm bar may be too much for overstear. My feeling was that my 20mm bar on the softest setting was too much.

 

^It's unfortunate that MINI did not build more camber adjustability into the stock suspension. Camber plates and reduced offset wheels will boot you right out of stock class and into STX, so you'd probably find a lot more written about those modifications in the STX forum.
My 22mm bar arrived yesterday and I got it installed this evening. I drove it around on the middle setting and the difference was very noticeable. It did not seem like too much rotation for low speed (autoX), but at track speed it might be a bit much. I can't wait to get to an autocross and do some fine tuning.

Anybody else have any practical experience with swaybar set up for stock class?

 

Section 13.4 of the SOLO rules allows you to use wheels with offsets that are within +/- 0.25 in (~6 mm) of the stock wheels. It also explicitly allows for the use of a spacer as long as the overall offset is within this margin.

Also, for 2012 all non-S Coopers are in STF, not STX.

Having just purchased my 2008 Cooper a few weeks ago, I haven't had a chance to autocross it yet. Living in New England sucks sometimes.

 

The Gen 2 Mini has camber adjust for up to -0.6 deg; stock is -0.3. Pull the little white plastic plug out of the top of each strut tower, loosen the strut nuts and move the struts inboard (and reset the toe-in). This is a great change for any Mini, even for the street.

I thought the sway bar change would kick you out of stock class?

Sway bar settings...This is going to depend on tires, wheel offset and driving style. For a large bar (20 or 22 mm) I would start with the softest setting. It is easy to change the setting, so you could change it between race sets.

 

The 2012 stock category rules permit replacement of the front OR rear sway bar.

Mine rotates nicely on Star Specs with stock sway bars and factory sport suspension. R comps might be a completely different story.

 

I was wondering how the sport suspension would do. I just got mine and have noticed that it is much more responsive than my '07 S without it (even with the RSB and camber plates). STX requires street tires so the response with Star Spec is what I would like hearing about.

 

See you at Devens in the Spring I do hope!

Cheers,

Charlie

 

I've been meaning to get to some SCCA events for a few years. Unfortunately, they've been at bad times. I've been going to the BMWCCA events for a long time, and I'm currently one of their course designers. I'm not sure how much I'll autocross the Cooper, since I also have a DSP preped 325, but I'll run it at least a few time.

 

I didn't get the JCW suspension, just the Sport Suspension upgrade. I've never auto-crossed, only drag raced. So this whole car is a new experience for me.

 

From drag racing to a car that can corner and go fast, ya this will be a new experience. You should like the sports suspension. I'm liking mine. Very flat and responsive.

 

I'm glad that I'll like it. The only complaint I've seen about the sport suspension was that it rides rough (especially with the runflats.) Every car I've ever owned (that wasn't just a daily/beater) has had a stiffer modified suspension...so I'm not too worried about a rough ride. I will be getting these to help prevent the strut tower mushrooming problem:

http://www.fastmini.net/crspsttode.html

 

I've had the pleasure of running with that crowd, and might have enjoyed one of your courses.

Kind regards,

Charlie

 

It is not that rough...very live-able. FWIW - The 16" RFTs that I have ride about the same as the non-RF 17" summer performance tires.

Gen 2 Minis don't have a mushroom issue, but the parts don't hurt. I would get the strut tower brace intead. They combine the support of the tower top with the brace between.

 

I'll have the 17" RFs. That's good to know about the mushrooming. Any recommendations on an attractive (but obviously functional) strut brace?

 

I liked the JCW one. Really sharp polished aluminum with John Cooper Works on it. A little expensive, though (~$50 more than others). M7 Tuning, Mini Mania, etc all have them. However, this will kick you out of stock class (at least by last year's rules)

 

Oooooooookkaaayyy...so back on topic here folks.

There's a rule update in stock class that you can modify the front OR rear sway bar (add/remove/increase size/decrease size). And the JCW springs and sway bars were legal last year because they were available port installed.

So this is a stock class discussion...lol....


NOW....personally I think the JCW suspension may be even more worthwhile now since you still get the stiffer springs and the JCW front bar. And that may pair up nicely with a huge rear sway bar.


A few touched on what I've been thinking...the bigger rear bar will allow the rear to move around more and the car may be better balanced..but I'd like to improve tire wear. The front tires STILL get destroyed on the car pretty bad...so I'm wondering about this idea...

Why not a HUGE front bar to reduce front body roll, shorter more progressive front bump stops and a MUCH stiffer rear bump stop to balance out the handling?


FWIW the 2011 I drove in the wet was nice on the street tires. Rotates just fine.

 

My fault

You hit on something that I have thought but is generally considered to be taboo in the "Mini handling improvement department". Most people posting would recommend against using a larger front bar as that would just make the car understeer more. However, I am with you, a larger front bar would increase the overall roll stiffness of the car, making a large rear bar more affective. I like your idea.

You didn't say what camber and wheel offset you have. I found that the 43 mm offset rims I used greatly improved the wear, although it was still not great. I ran STX last year and had -1.6 deg camber which also helped. Not sure what can be done in stock, but I would hope that you can run the -0.6 that the Gen II suspension allows. I may be running stock class this year, so I guess I should look at the rules.

Do you know what the 2011 that you drove had in it for a suspension?

 

I'm starting with the full SS+ suspension including bigger front bar, and will be trying the hotchkis race bar in the back. Anywhere from 300-500% increase... For $175 shipped, it's worth a shot.

 

From what I have seen in a few video posts, the sports suspension really flattens the car. I have also seen this on the track. For auto-x, the sway bar is probably good. Just a word of caution...a suspension setup that is good or great for auto-x is over kill on a track. So if you are thinking of tracking your car be careful of having too much rotation in the turns. A little less sway bar (softest setting) for the track, at least to start.

 

SS+ suspension really doesn't flatten the car out much... Need much heavier springs. It's better, don't get me wrong, but nothing to write home about. As for too much bar for the track: psshhhhh, that's what the skinny pedal is for!

 

Just to bump this....here's an update fromt he Pro Solo @ mineral Wells this last weekend...

I had no time (or $$$) to get a bigger rear bar for the pro solo. So I drilled a hole slightly stiffer on the stock rear bar. Made the smallest of differences, but not enough.


I've since found that everyone who's fast seems to be on the hochkis sway bars. Greg is on the race rear bar (looks to be a 25.4mm solid bar) and most others are on the competition rear bar (24.5mm hollow).

The race bar is CHEAP and only $150 list while the comp bar lists for $295.


Long story short...with no big rear bar I was stuck trying to rotate via crap rear tires and high tire pressures. Saturday was OLD 50 run nearly corded C71 hankooks out back while Sunday I used the Federal 595 RS-R's (yes that's a street tire). I ran the C51s up front almost all weekend and they were great...but not good enough.


Anyway...I see a bigger rear bar is NEEDED for controlled balance as opposed to the slide the rear around method I've become accustomed to. So next up is to find a deal on a Hotchkis comp rear bar.

 

I put on the Hotchkis race bar, and had to then move to the SS+ front bar to stay within rules. With the Koni DA's on the car finally, it feels amazing. Won pax at our first local event on a 55-60 second course by almost a second, against plenty of good national competitors too.

I'm going to enjoy the soft pax this year while it lasts

Unfortunately my tour and pro solo schedule has been shot to hell this year. My Grandma passed away a few days before Dixie, I can't get out of work for Lincoln, and my buddy is getting married on June 8th, so Blytheville is out. I'll have to wait till Toledo and Peru to see how I'm stacking up now.

 

The car will still be a hoot when you get back to it. Very sorry for your loss.

Nice driving to that PAX result!

Sincerely,

Charlie