2007 RSR Archive
Coordinator :: RSR Motorsports Forum
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
Race final
Finished 17 . . . not too shabby but certainly not what we wanted.
Our streak of bad luck continues . . . at the pit stop for fuel and driver change, we broke a stud on the right front wheel. It took + 5 minutes to fix and cost us 5 laps. At least we had the parts and quick wits for the repair ready to go in the pit box. Congrats to the crew.
We went from 1 lap down to 6 down in a blink of an eye. Up to that point we were competitive but could not lap at the pace of the leaders. It took the leaders 1/2 the race to get one lap on us . . . it would have taken a similar amount to get another.
Again, lack of horsepower sealed our fate. We were hoping for a cooler day but the weather was setting heat records. The inadequate innercooler did us in again.
We could hold our own in the twisties but only saw tail lights at the uphill and on the front strait.
We removed the M7 cooler after seeing inlet temps at + 200 degrees. We ran with the Forge instead and it was marginally better. These street racer products perform well in street trim but are not up the task of full on racing. I guess we will head back to the drawing board. I suspect the excess inlet heat was costing us 25+ horsepower. . . very distressing.
Special thanks to Mark who ran a great race. He set the two fastest laps of the day and was as consistant as any driver on the track. I look forward to having him drive again. He truly understands endurance racing . . . consistant laps and stay out of trouble. Well done.
I hate to make excuses and I'm sure you are tired of hearing them, but . . . without the stud problem we would have been at least 12th and maybe top ten.
Anyway . . . we will press on on and prep for Mosport in June.
See you in Canada.
Randy
Our streak of bad luck continues . . . at the pit stop for fuel and driver change, we broke a stud on the right front wheel. It took + 5 minutes to fix and cost us 5 laps. At least we had the parts and quick wits for the repair ready to go in the pit box. Congrats to the crew.
We went from 1 lap down to 6 down in a blink of an eye. Up to that point we were competitive but could not lap at the pace of the leaders. It took the leaders 1/2 the race to get one lap on us . . . it would have taken a similar amount to get another.
Again, lack of horsepower sealed our fate. We were hoping for a cooler day but the weather was setting heat records. The inadequate innercooler did us in again.
We could hold our own in the twisties but only saw tail lights at the uphill and on the front strait.
We removed the M7 cooler after seeing inlet temps at + 200 degrees. We ran with the Forge instead and it was marginally better. These street racer products perform well in street trim but are not up the task of full on racing. I guess we will head back to the drawing board. I suspect the excess inlet heat was costing us 25+ horsepower. . . very distressing.
Special thanks to Mark who ran a great race. He set the two fastest laps of the day and was as consistant as any driver on the track. I look forward to having him drive again. He truly understands endurance racing . . . consistant laps and stay out of trouble. Well done.
I hate to make excuses and I'm sure you are tired of hearing them, but . . . without the stud problem we would have been at least 12th and maybe top ten.
Anyway . . . we will press on on and prep for Mosport in June.
See you in Canada.
Randy
Randy, Mark.
SOOO sorry I could not make it over there this weekend! Things came up and I had to make one of those right, but hard decisions which was not to go.
I really wanted to meet you guys.
SOOO sorry I could not make it over there this weekend! Things came up and I had to make one of those right, but hard decisions which was not to go.
I really wanted to meet you guys.
Coordinator :: RSR Motorsports Forum
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
LRP
As it turns out we ended up one crewman short. I was hoping you would be there to fill the gap. However, a friend of Tim's showed up and he stepped it. It was a pretty simple job . . . holding the fire ext while fueling. . . nothing glamorous !
Next time !
Randy
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Randy
The team did a great job, considering me getting punted in the first practice session and than with the darn lug nut. The car ran great and the handeling was very good. We also broke a right rear shock and replaced it with a "non KONI" and the car still felt great. I look forward to the next time out. Congrats to RSR.
Greg sorry we missed you, I was looking forward to meeting you and Meb. Also, thank again, the tapes really helped !!
See you next year ???? I know I will be there !!
Mark
The team did a great job, considering me getting punted in the first practice session and than with the darn lug nut. The car ran great and the handeling was very good. We also broke a right rear shock and replaced it with a "non KONI" and the car still felt great. I look forward to the next time out. Congrats to RSR.
Greg sorry we missed you, I was looking forward to meeting you and Meb. Also, thank again, the tapes really helped !!
See you next year ???? I know I will be there !!
Mark
Big intercoolers rule! 
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Hey Guys,
Sometime when you get a break I'd love to have more discussion over this intake temperature situation you are having.
Even better, you should come up to Road America for a test and we'll do a design of experiments with several different components to find the optimum intake/intercooler/etc combination - I'm a six-sigma green belt, and while it is mainly for manufacturing, the same things apply.
Sometime when you get a break I'd love to have more discussion over this intake temperature situation you are having.
Even better, you should come up to Road America for a test and we'll do a design of experiments with several different components to find the optimum intake/intercooler/etc combination - I'm a six-sigma green belt, and while it is mainly for manufacturing, the same things apply.
Coordinator :: RSR Motorsports Forum
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
Innercooler
Hey Guys,
Sometime when you get a break I'd love to have more discussion over this intake temperature situation you are having.
Even better, you should come up to Road America for a test and we'll do a design of experiments with several different components to find the optimum intake/intercooler/etc combination - I'm a six-sigma green belt, and while it is mainly for manufacturing, the same things apply.
Sometime when you get a break I'd love to have more discussion over this intake temperature situation you are having.
Even better, you should come up to Road America for a test and we'll do a design of experiments with several different components to find the optimum intake/intercooler/etc combination - I'm a six-sigma green belt, and while it is mainly for manufacturing, the same things apply.
Any thoughts you have about the MCS inner cooler would be appreciated. We are convinced that solving the IC problem is our #1 Problem.
Some idle thoughts of mine . . .
It is common knowledge that the air scoop is inadequate on the Mini. Unfortunately, we are NOT allowed to modify it in any way. It is my unconfirmed belief that the air flows OVER the scoop rather than through it at higher speeds. When the IC heat soaks it is almost impossible to get it to cool down when you are at racing speeds. A simple observation . . and it is why I think the scoop does not work.
Also, in theory, the area in front of the windshield should be a low pressure area as the air crosses the hood and flows over the windshield. I sometimes wonder if the vertical windshield is having the effect of 'packing' the air in this area instead??? Anyone have a wind tunnel handy??
Now . . . fire up that six-sigma thinking cap and tell me what is really happening in these areas?? An answer could help us engineer a solution to the IC delimna.
Thanks
Randy
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Randy, if I understood you correctly, you must use an unmodified stock scoop. And if I recall correctly, you were using the the DFIC. Having had a fair amount of input into the DFIC, it is a system in that it requires its own specially designed scoop. Were you using this scoop with the DFIC? I'm guessing not given that you must use the stock scoop...
Indeed, a larger scoop makes a heck of a difference. Dr Obnxs and I did some testing here a while back, and it was determined that a larger scoop on the stock IC made for more of a gain than a larger IC with the stock scoop.
The stock scoop might not be the culprit though. The diverter set-up sometimes not as effective as it could be on some units. At higher speeds, with the increased build-up of pressure on top of the stock or stock-like IC, there is leakage of this air, and not all of it is driven down through the core, making for less than ideal charge cooling. This was essentially the driving force that eventually inspired the creation of the DFIC. Very vivid memories of how I was so consumed a couple a summers ago...
I hope the water-to-air works for you guys! I've never tried one, but have heard mixed feedback. So long as the water reservoir is sufficiently large to avoid water heat soak, all is good. If not, the results are not desirable.
Ambient air is the cooling agent, and the lowest temp we can expect to achieve. The simplicity of using air to cool air, without the middleman (water) just seems more desirable. As you probably remember, this is what Nuzzo ran with:
Just another idea to consider. They were pulling 1:01 laps at LRP last year, so I'm guessing they were getting lower IAT's...
Maybe you can fab something like in the above photos also? Shouldn't be too expensive to make, or take much time. Just trying to help. Want to see you guys do well!
Indeed, a larger scoop makes a heck of a difference. Dr Obnxs and I did some testing here a while back, and it was determined that a larger scoop on the stock IC made for more of a gain than a larger IC with the stock scoop.
The stock scoop might not be the culprit though. The diverter set-up sometimes not as effective as it could be on some units. At higher speeds, with the increased build-up of pressure on top of the stock or stock-like IC, there is leakage of this air, and not all of it is driven down through the core, making for less than ideal charge cooling. This was essentially the driving force that eventually inspired the creation of the DFIC. Very vivid memories of how I was so consumed a couple a summers ago...
I hope the water-to-air works for you guys! I've never tried one, but have heard mixed feedback. So long as the water reservoir is sufficiently large to avoid water heat soak, all is good. If not, the results are not desirable.
Ambient air is the cooling agent, and the lowest temp we can expect to achieve. The simplicity of using air to cool air, without the middleman (water) just seems more desirable. As you probably remember, this is what Nuzzo ran with:
Just another idea to consider. They were pulling 1:01 laps at LRP last year, so I'm guessing they were getting lower IAT's...
Maybe you can fab something like in the above photos also? Shouldn't be too expensive to make, or take much time. Just trying to help. Want to see you guys do well!
Last edited by Rsstopper; Jun 6, 2007 at 07:15 AM. Reason: correction
Coordinator :: RSR Motorsports Forum
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
IC
Randy, if I understood you correctly, you must use an unmodified stock scoop. And if I recall correctly, you were using the the DFIC. Having had a fair amount of input into the DFIC, it is a system in that it requires its own specially designed scoop. Were you using this scoop with the DFIC? I'm guessing not given that you must use the stock scoop...
Indeed, a larger scoop makes a heck of a difference. Dr Obnxs and I did some testing here a while back, and it was determined that a larger scoop on the stock IC made for more of a gain than a larger IC with the stock scoop.
The stock scoop might not be the culprit though. The diverter set-up sometimes not as effective as it could be on some units. At higher speeds, with the increased build-up of pressure on top of the stock or stock-like IC, there is leakage of this air, and not all of it is driven down through the core, making for less than ideal charge cooling. This was essentially the driving force that eventually inspired the creation of the DFIC. Very vivid memories of how I was so consumed a couple a summers ago...
I hope the water-to-air works for you guys! I've never tried one, but have heard mixed feedback. So long as the water reservoir is sufficiently large to avoid water heat soak, all is good. If not, the results are not desirable.
Ambient air is the cooling agent, and the lowest temp we can expect to achieve. The simplicity of using air to cool air, without the middleman (water) just seems more desirable. As you probably remember, this is what Nuzzo ran with:
Just another idea to consider. They were pulling 1:01 laps at LRP last year, so I'm guessing they were getting lower IAT's...
Maybe you can fab something like in the above photos also? Shouldn't be too expensive to make, or take much time. Just trying to help. Want to see you guys do well!
Indeed, a larger scoop makes a heck of a difference. Dr Obnxs and I did some testing here a while back, and it was determined that a larger scoop on the stock IC made for more of a gain than a larger IC with the stock scoop.
The stock scoop might not be the culprit though. The diverter set-up sometimes not as effective as it could be on some units. At higher speeds, with the increased build-up of pressure on top of the stock or stock-like IC, there is leakage of this air, and not all of it is driven down through the core, making for less than ideal charge cooling. This was essentially the driving force that eventually inspired the creation of the DFIC. Very vivid memories of how I was so consumed a couple a summers ago...
I hope the water-to-air works for you guys! I've never tried one, but have heard mixed feedback. So long as the water reservoir is sufficiently large to avoid water heat soak, all is good. If not, the results are not desirable.
Ambient air is the cooling agent, and the lowest temp we can expect to achieve. The simplicity of using air to cool air, without the middleman (water) just seems more desirable. As you probably remember, this is what Nuzzo ran with:
Just another idea to consider. They were pulling 1:01 laps at LRP last year, so I'm guessing they were getting lower IAT's...
Maybe you can fab something like in the above photos also? Shouldn't be too expensive to make, or take much time. Just trying to help. Want to see you guys do well!
Tony's cars lapped faster than us at LRP. He had two 'hot shoe' driver's in Lewis and Hopwood. (I co-drove with Hopwood in the #22 last year . . . and he was fast!). Hopwood holds the track record at LRP. Mark and I don't have a lot of LRP experience and 'seat time' is an important factor there. LRP is also an extremely rough track. Tony was running 3 way adj Moton shocks . . . we have to use single adj Koni's. Plus, we broke a shaft on the right rear and raced with some street shocks on the rear because the Koni truck did not have the parts to repair.
Regardless, I do not think we could have matched Tony's '06 times. The 95 degree temps bled to much HP to allow us to run in the 1:01's. Tony had it together at LRP last year!
One of the problems with using a setup like the one above is the restrictive airflow through the cooler to the engine because of all the turns and bends.
Also, the GA rules are vague but we interpret them as not allowing us to change the cast alum plenum's that feed the IC and the intake manifold.
That being said, I'm sure Tony Nuzzo designed his IC because of the exact problem we are seeing. He has probably already gone through these engineering issues.
We will try the water/air setup first because it is designed around a stock air/air IC unit. It mounts in the stock location with stock brackets. If that does not work, then a air system may be in the works.
We are willing to give up peak HP in return for consistency.
Randy
Coordinator :: RSR Motorsports Forum
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
Mid Ohio June 21-24
Opening a new thread for Mid Ohio.
We will run 2 cars . . . debuting the second car at this event. . . #198
Drivers:
Randall Smalley
Mark Congleton
Steve Pattee
4th driver . . .TBD
We will run 2 cars . . . debuting the second car at this event. . . #198
Drivers:
Randall Smalley
Mark Congleton
Steve Pattee
4th driver . . .TBD
Last edited by Rsstopper; Jun 6, 2007 at 08:35 AM. Reason: correction
Coordinator :: RSR Motorsports Forum
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
From: Arizona
Intake box
No, we use a K&N setup but we do use the stock manifold, throttle body and innercooler intake and discharge castings.
Randy
Randy
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
I'd say given that GA had no qualms with Nuzzo's FMIC, and with that the elimination of the plenums that connect to it, you'd be safe with your own derivation. Give water a shot. Please report back how it goes. You've got the added weight though, but if it's worth it...
Wish you luck guys!
Wish you luck guys!
Last edited by Rsstopper; Jun 6, 2007 at 10:51 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,957
Likes: 2
From: a canyon, south Bay Area
Looks like fun!
Summer will have arrived... Glad the 198 car will be ready. Congrats on making that happen. It seems that all races are split now, which I think is better, for a few reasons.
I'll be in London the next couple of weeks, but I'll be following these next two races carefully.
