Well, I guess Joey Hand’s crash sums up the safety discussion. Here is what he has to say about safety:
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/grandam/27471/

 

I don't know whose car that is with the belts and bolt in (Auto Power?) cage but it doesn't have a seat back brace. I was also wondering if it was on sliders or mounted to the floor. Because if it is on slider’s it's a bad idea for racing. It's ok for DE but not racing. There is a big difference in the two. Big difference.

And to top it off the fire extinguisher is behind the driver! If you are going to run with a passengers seat Brey-Kraus makes a mount for the front; the appropriate location.

 

Actually if the seat is FIA approved and is mounted with FIA approved mounts (which most likely are NOT sliders) then no seat back brace is needed. That's one of the requirements for FIA approval, being able to stand alone without back brace. FIA seats flex like crazy, which is why I won't use one myself.
I agree about the fire bottle, but the driver says he can reach it. Not sure what the use of one of these extinguishers is. The last thing I would want to try and do if I had a fire would be to fumble around with that thing. The idea behind a fire suppression system is to be able to pull a handle and get out ASAP! Makes no sense...
Again, PLEASE, .. this is not a cut on the owner. He was obviously never given correct guidance on safety, if any at all.

 

At this juncture, I feel I must regretfully respond to this thread. I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm and interest in the North American MINI Cooper Championship. However, much of the criticism leveled here is being drawn on assumptions and out of context judgement. Rest assured, constructive input is welcomed. Any racers or potential races may phone me with any questions, input, ideas or personal misgivings you may have and I would be happy to dosciss, exchange dialogue and set the record straight. I am easy to contact and will be glad to talk with you. Many thanks. Cheers!

Phil Wicks

 

Norree,

What criticism is being drawn on assumptions and out of context judgement? Please be more specific and respond to that here openly and in the public view.

Why phone? Why not answer it here where we can all see and understand? Isn't that much easier than doing it one by one? You are not trying to hide anything, right?


According to Phil's website, Phil has been racing for more than 50 years. One would think that he has seen his share of accidents and what terrible tragedies can come of them. To waive safety off, well, make your own judgment.

Most of the "whiners", "naysayers" and "jeerers" are people with significant racing experience. Listen to them and what they say (especially post #132, read it again), they know what they are talking about.

I can't fault RandyBMC too much; racers want to race anything, anytime, anywhere. Especially when one has traversed a great distance. No one wants to go home after spending all that time and money because the seat back brace was not correct ($40 part, true story). However, that is why a sanctioning body is there. They are supposed to save the racers from themselves even if they don't want saving. A good reason why racers should not "tech" themselves and don't in any other respected series. Speaking of which, where is Pete Taylor? Has he even been to one event? Is he going to be Director of Race Series from home? I suspect something here....


Dmh,

I totally understand the knowledge you are trying to gain. Very good questions.


Built-by-Bones,

Don't waste your time unless your driver is very average and needs the seat time.

 

Regrettfully must respond? What! And to think that some of us were hoping for an acknowledgement of the conditions, we get a perturbed response instead .

The first steps in addressing any issue is to first recognize and admit that there is one. With that attitude made painfully clear, any discussions are futile.

Speaking for myself, my expressions here have been based upon commentary by participants (students & racers), and photos. There has never been a need to assume anything with such abundant evidence...

In retrospect, given the extent of your response, you should not have bothered. We've known all along that we can contact you... And not addressing the expressed safety concerns in this thread is very much in line with the continued lack of corrective action on the track, unfortunately. Nothing new was contributed... and it made you irritated doing so.

I come from the belief of never do anything half-*** and if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. The official response provided here, much like what we've seen on the track, is just ill-conceived; and hopefully not intentionally so.

Racers, I admire what you do! Best to you all.

 

Biting tongue, .... biting tongue.....

 

FYI: I seriously doubt Phil Wicks is a NAM regular or an "internet guy" ....

It would be nice to have someone post the response they got from calling him ( he IS easily reached) and addressing their concerns ...and his responses to those

(I have a feeling he loses money at the Phil Wicks events)

 

I can't agree more. The phone is his method to communicate, rather than an internet message board.
We all have our individual skill levels there after all.

I won't speak to safety issues for the race series as that would not be an area where I have experience.
I can say that I have had less than joyous experience at another driving school and positive at PW.

 

I agree with Queen B and Red Fury.
The biggest assumption of all is to assume you're right.

 

Many, if not most ventures lose money their first year and beyond. That is to be expected, and certainly should not in any way serve as a mediating factor, or worse yet an excuse to compromise the most essential of needs.

If safety first is right, there are none, zero, nada... assumptions being made. The end result speaks for itself. What has been acceptable thus far has not made safety a priority, and that is a fact, and not debatable.

If safety is 2nd, 3rd, or an after-thought, we get compromises; and that is what we are seeing.

 

Looks like I will NOT make the event ... My Toyos I ordered last week were not even shipped yet ... bad service !!!! All I have are street tires

Good luck to the rest of you ...Be Safe and have Fun !!!

 

Well, you all might be racing in the rain anyway so if you have good sticky streets then you might be OK.
Wish I had know Phil as I have a set of shaved and scrubbed RA1s 205-40-17s I would have lent you.
You should maybe cancel that order and see if anyone closer to Summit has something you could get there? I would think they could even be shipped there or to a nearby garage?

Anyway, that's too bad that this happened. Would this have been your first Wicks race?

 

Until one talks to Phil, you are assuming. Get the facts, not what is "apparant" "what we are seeing" "expressions here have been based upon commentary" "one would think" "make your own judgement" "if" "speaks for itself" "much like we have seen" and finally "I suspect.."

 

Yes, Rookie

I unfortunately have very little time .... I work 7am-5pm Wed AND Friday too

No time for running around, since I am 8 hours, 500 miles from Summit Point..

Well, If I make it, there is always DE

 

B- Spelling error corrected by professor Gotabamini


:impatient :impatient I remember some old college English teachers like you.
Everyone would walk out of the class wondering what the heck just happened for that last hour...

Your last two post say absolutely nothing. Why don't you just say it in non cryptic terms so we don't have to guess, because it sounds like you are a little crazy actually ...

 

OK. Let me spell it out for you.
Talk to PW and give him your input.
PS: "Collage" is spelled with an "E"
I'm not a college professor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night

 

Pictures do not lie. The accounts of what PW has allowed in terms of safety, including waivers, are confirmed, and by more than a few. This is reality, and there is no denying that.

The more that this truth is contested, the more one feels obligated to deal with this pompous attitude, or just lose interest completely in this inept attempt...

There have been many robust testemonials provided in this thread. As shared a few posts above, if one must be chosen as the poster child of this dissention, it's post #132 (page 6).

Actions speak louder than words. A phone call is absolutely pointless. There is NO reasoning whatsoever for safety being what it is at PW events.

 

Phil (or his PR firm?) posted here so he does not need a call from me to give him my opinion.
To me it's no longer an issue to talk with him anyway as he got the message obviously or he would not have "regrettably" had to post here.
The "FACTS" are out there, and most importantly right here in this thread. If you actually did take the time to read this whole thread, and all the other Wicks threads on this forum, you just might see that. Even those who were there have posted their concerns, not to mention ALL of the PMs that just I alone have received. The fact is that many are much smarter then me and feel that staying off this thread is a much safer way to present themselves here on NAM. Me, I have a big mouth...

The fact that wicks feels that all of this is just not important enough to address here is all I personally need to hear.



Ahhhhhhh, .... every time I leave ...they just PULL ME back in ...

 

Ok, I think you guys have made your point, like 29 times!

If you look back over the posts, you'll see that no one involved with the series has claimed that it doesn't have problems that need to be fixed. But it takes time, money and work to do that. Since none of you detractors has offered to help fix those problems or to even pick up the phone and talk to Phil about your issues, the rest of us can only assume that you have some other agenda. So now, after having repeated yourself ad nauseum, why don't you and your fellow safety ***** go harrass someone else and let us get to work on trying to make NAMCCRS into the safe, fun and popular series that it can be? I hope you can find some other series to run in that will meet your exacting requirements. You've made it abundently clear that this is not it. Fair enough. Good luck to you. Enough already.

 

But Jerry, you know it is so much fun to beat a dead horse !!

 

Rolling on the floor LOL!!!
Greg, you are indeed talented...did not know you were a comedian also

 

Hey, Jerry

Safety ***** ? You just have to be kidding me with this, but the weird thing is that I was JUST thinking that at some point one of you thick headed people was going to come up with the conspiracy theory.
Yea, like 29 times at least, but you just still don't get what it's all about, ..... thick headed to say the least. I have only been responding to other post here as most, and if that means making my point 29 times then so be it.
Thick headed..... What the HELL does money or "help needed" have to do with enforcing the rules that are published on the Wicks website? Are you saying that you need me to come educate Phil himself as to what is safe and what is not?? Is this what you need me (us) for? You need me to come and be the head tech inspector? Or is it that you need me to buy everyone out there a window net so they can come to race one single race for almost $500 entry fee?
What is it you want here Jerry?
Do you actually believe your paranoid conspiracy theory that we must have some other agenda? Are you seriously this thick headed! I could care less about this Wicks series at this point, but you know what.... I do care about everyone out there racing.
To see Brian, from Webb Motorsports not having a clue that his belts were so screwed up after , what, .. four or more WICKS techs? You gotta be kidding me. You need money or an extra person to take care of this? What... five cars just too many for you to deal with?
I'm freekin livid right now with such a response from you! WICKS HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE SAFETY OF EVERYONE THAT COMES TO HIS EVENTS! The fact that such a young man like Brian was let out on the track with no window net, dangerous belts, a fire extinguisher in that location, a harness bar that is way to low, a questionable seat set up and who know what else is a CRIME!
Whether Brian likes it or not, I do care about him, as I care about anyone who is part of OUR mini community. I feel really good, and I mean really good that I was able to enlighten Brian, and I hope others. Where is your input here Jerry? All I see you do is promote a profit goaled business here.
Just disgraceful, and shame on all of you. Some of these racers and DEers are just kids. Just seeing the carnage a Laguna Seca was sickening! Hearing people here defending the fact that the racers all know each other so they don't need the correct safety equipment is freaking DUMB! Randy already showed that even a talented a driver as he could completely LOOSE CONTROL OF HIS CAR!

OK, Fine, .... it's on your heads if anything, God forbid, goes amiss in the future and someone gets injured because he holds a wavior. Have fun explaining that one to their mom and dad, wife, kids or whoever might be in their life. Maybe you can blame it on me, or Tony, or anyone else that had the concern to post here because 'we didn't help'.


There, I just made it 30!
PS: Your 'don't bother ever joining us' message is quite apparent. I'll just chalk it up to how Phil runs this series.

 

I participated in the PW event at Laguna Seca, and during one of the group sessions I went off the inside of the track and slid along the barrier wall that had a rubber tire surface. Fortunately, there was no bodily injury, although the car did suffer a bit.

The experience was certainly frightening and most humbling, because something really bad happened in just the blink-of-an-eye. I am most grateful that my car was equipped with a very strong Autopower roll bar and Schroth 3" racing harnesses (attached the correct way). Without the harness and helmet, there probably would have been bodily injury. I am also thankful that I was not in the formal race with the wheel-to-wheel competition.

I don't blame the car, the phase of the moon, the track or whatever, since the incident was clearly related to a "management issue". Many people, myself included, have felt that the Mini was a very safe and forgiving car, and that with a little training and experience, one could get out on the track and "run with the big boys". That line of reasoning is so wrong. Yes, the Mini is a great car to drive, but you certainly can get into trouble very easily, especially on the track.

IMO, there are two major variables in the successful track experience equation (aside from track conditions, weather, etc.):

(1) Driver ability and judgement

(2) The car itself, including performance AND safety features.

Hopefully, (1) comes with proper instruction and experience. Some of us may not now or ever be ready for the full track experience. Our egos will survive as we watch from the sidelines. However, without the SAFETY COMPONENTS in (2), the equation yields a big zero!! Accidents, by definition, happen!

The marketers tell us to "Motor On".... I'd like to think that "safely" is implicit in the phrase. If one "motors on" to the track, then add "with appropriate safety equipment."

Cheers,

 

Dear Mr. Wicks, Siddhartha

As you can tell from this thread, there are a lot of opinions on the NAMCC. First I must say I’m not as elegant a writer as some of our other NAM colleges. Please be open for some constructive criticism and observation from this form as well as my opinion.

1. Make NAMCC a spec series.
2. Only two classes MINI and MINI S
3. Post the rules for 2007 now. For car building and racing rules. BMWCC or NASA or???
4. Make safety number 1 priority, don’t waiver.

If you were to read all of the posts I think you would find this is what the members of NAM want and they do want a successful MINI Challenge Series.
Just like the JCW series in England, we need to be dealing with spec cars not tuner cars. Allowing just two classes MINI and MINI S built to the rules would allow better competition. Not just a winner in class because they are the only one in class. We understand that for this year to build interest multi classes were needed. The MINI being a fairly new car in the Market we don’t find a lot of MINI’s racing. In a different thread I believe I was corrected in that Arizona has something like 20 MINI’s prepped for NASA MINI Challenge, but not a single one came to LVS. I believe SCCA has many SSC cars running as well. But the cost of entry to play the game is high. Cost of MINI $20,000 plus the cost of safety gear. Next year, cars need to start being built to some spec. This is why we need the rules now. If someone wants to race next year at Las Vegas Motor Speedway March 24/25 they may want to start prepping their car over the next 9 months. They need to know what the costs might be.

If you posted on your WEB site the “07” rules and estimated costs to construct, more owners might be interested. At least they would have some useful information to help in making an informed decision.

Cost of MINI $20,000
Roll cage $1000 minimum
Fire System $500
Master Switch $300
Seat $500
Harness $200
Personal Safety Items, Suit, helmet, shoes, gloves, Hans, $2500
And this is a bone stock MINI, no engine mods, no suspension mods.
Add suspension, coilovers $2000, sway bars $400, wheels and tires $1500 the costs mount.

Don't bend on Safety, never ever. Enough said

Please view this forum not as a distraction but a place where Car owners, drivers and future drivers might voice their concerns. I know some of the drivers, met at the track, talked on the phone and emailed others, not all I agree with, pro or con, but they all make since and their voice needs to be heard. After all they are the one’s putting their cars on the track and paying entry fees. Sometimes the costs is greater then the entry fee.