Track Guys,

I went out this weekend to Mid-Ohio , first time out since installing my full cage, new High Perf. street tires = Dunlop SP Maxx(215-45-17), new alignment, new LSD, H-sport front and rear sways, clutch, etc ....

My camber is set at -2.0 in front, -1.4 in rear, slight toe out I believe

I had issues .... Tires will now squeel around every high speed corner, 2 or 4 wheel drift if I am reallly on it or fast into corners. Car was never really was out of control, just tires noisy and drifting a lot sooner than ever before

Felt slippery?

I need to sort out what the problem is and fix it

 

What tires did you have before?

 

Bridgestone S03 pole Position ...215-40-17

 

There are a whole bunch of questions to ask, but how stiff are your new springs, and, dampers (how adjustable)? How big are your swaybars and what are the settings?

Roll cages will affect your setup, by the way. What worked before may not now.

If you get Grass Roots magazine, there is a great article about damper tuning in last month's issue.

Michael

 

I tried several settings on the Bilstein PSS9s .... went from 6 to 4 in the rear, helped a bit

2-4 in the front

Front H-Sport is set to soft, rear is mid setting

I started the day with Cold Tire pressures around 37 in front, 35 in rear ...dropped by end of 4 run groups to 32 and 29-30, in attempts to get more grip

 

...6 to 4, is this hard to soft? Where are the front dampers set?

Also, noisy tires - and I don't know these - isn't necessarily a bad thing. Are your lap times off?

 

He was having a little trouble slipping a little on the turns i was watching....i dont think it was just noisey tires.

 

well ...sliding around and not griping well = scrubbing off speed

Track times were not my concern ,,,track was new to me, I was alone, no timing done

9 =softest, 1= hard rebound on PSS9

 

yah i know....just thought it looked like a little more than you had wanted since we talked about it.

you've got a pm

 

RED FURY,

Are you certain your alignment specs are what you think thay are? I ask, because I gave my specs to the guys corner weighting my car and had a terrible time at LRP. I blamed my time on 37 degree temps. In reality, my front toe was so far toed in that it was off the scale and rear camber was over 3 degrees negative both sides. I was fighting with the car; it was hard to get it to rotate, then it was loose then it would understeer - all on brand new RA1s.

 

I spoke wirth them already, they said it was aligned properly ... Not sure

RALLY MINI ,Andrew, was there to take some great pics

 

Phil,
First, you need to give your tires a chance to heat cycle here, even if they are street tires, they need to go through their molecular changes before they perform correctly. Fresh street tires feel the way you are describing when new.
This is the problem when changing so many things at the same time.

 

...I assumed that...know what that makes me...

 

True, thanks for the inputs everyone ...

I am just a bit WORRIED ... I will embarking soon on a 7 track CannonBall ONELAP event that takes me 5,000+ miles in the MINI on some SERIOUSLY FAST tracks ... Competing for times

I was hitting 120mph on the back straight, braking, then turning, going into a 4 wheel drift ...A BIT unnerving Not much grip

I did 4 run groups, 20 minutes each ... It was still sliding , but less on the last time out .... Less tire pressures too and I knew the track better

 

I don't think you're going to get away from that with street tires....I was there on Friday and Saturday (white Cooper in HPDE4) and if my tires DON'T scream I'm not pushing hard enough.

Gary

 

Phil, if you have not done so, please mark your camber plates and control arms. I did so at the alignment shop to ensure that I had no unwanted movement on the way home, and afterwards. If you have Sol's/Webb's plates (as Greg can attest), snugging-up those nuts can be a challenge...

There have been instances were folks lost their wonderful alignment minutes after leaving the shop, and that really sucks! I'm betting it's the new rubber also, but I caution you to mark-up those items anyways... Best of luck to you!

 

I would have the car corner balanced again just to make sure, what you are describing is exactly how my car behaved when I switched to PSS9 without getting it corner weighted and balance, once i had it corner weighted and balanced no more issues. once you are sure of alignment and corner weights, then start looking at the anti-sway bars since you changed both.

 

Good point on corner-balance...

Phil, after my PSS9's were installed, my car didn't sit right. I did all that I could to approximate a decent cb at home (with weight in the driver's seat), but just couldn't even get close. I then noticed that my rear sway bar was frozen, making everything goofy! I'd say pop-off the end links, and try to rotate the bars. Lubricate if not moving well, or at all. Go back for a cb, and have them double check the alignment work, explaning the importance, given what you are about to embark upon...

Keep us informed.

 

The car IS predictable ....

I think it is the STREET TIRES .... they won't grip well at higher speeeds !!!!!

 

Nice car....i have some pics for you

your tires were definitely putting out some noise on a few of the tighter turns....you were doing well out there.

 

Thanks--there were some stupidly fast cars in that group but on the Friday in the rain the Minis did quite well.

 

Phil

What a bummer you are chasing a set up. This is a very tough subject to get help with. Like noted above, I think you should check your camber settings to see if they shifted.

If possible I would think you could get a bit more neg in the front. We do not have any toe on our Spec's (I just can't remember why but is is for a very good reason) and find that is best for us.

Good to see your tire pressures were dropped I think your start point was quite (way to) high. I think you are very close or right on the proper pressures. Much of your problem must have been tire pressure and cold track.

When I get stuck with a set up and have the time, I go full stiff with all settings and work back changing one thing at a time.

My front sway should is set on hard at all times, I let the Bilsteins do the work up front and they are usually set pretty hard. For me I like the rear bar (the new H Sport - 25mm????) set in middle for all but very tight tracks and my Bilsteins are usually 1-2 clicks off full stiff.

I hope some of the above helps, but I suspect tire pressure was the real problem.

 

I may do another Track event to tune this car before the ONELAP ....hehe

 

Dear Red Fury, leave the street tires at home and try some R-compound tires . Try some Toto RA-1's or Hossier R-SO5's or even the new Hankooks. You are wasting your time and street tires...they will not help you get the car set up properly.
Contact me if you would like any tips.
Regards,
Steve

 

Steve, he can't use R compounds when he does the 'One Lap'. That's why he's is on these tires now.