At the top of my to-do list for this off season is a set of wheels and tires for the track (HPDE events). I don't autocross in a series where I have to worry about keeping a certain wheel / tire size, so that's not an issue. Also, I do not have or plan to get a big brake kit - I even run 15" wheels in the winter.

My plan is to use something like a Falken Azenis for track rubber next year. My budget is not unlimited, so wheels like SSR Comps are probably not going to happen. R-compounds are also not in the picture immediately.

What's the hot wheel / tire for the track? Is there a wheel size I should avoid because of limited tire choice? Getting 4 wheels and tires for $1000-$1500 would be great. A bit more than that would be tollerable.

 

I used my stock 16" x-lites and got a set of Falken RT-615's for track days. They work great and wear well.

I got a set of ASA AR1's with 17" Goodyear F1's for the street and that seems to be a great combo.

 

u can try rota wheels... 15x7 is about 450 for 4... not a bad price, and considering their weight they are great!

 

I agree that Rota makes a very good wheel for the price and would also recomend it if you are not looking to spend $300 a wheel.

I think this place is about the cheepest for Rotas.
http://www.jaydm.com/

 

I have a set of 15 holies and Toyo RA-1's. $600 for the tires. You should be able to find holies for around $200.

 

I'm selling my 17"x 7.5 SSR Comp Type C with Toyo RA1 for $1650 USD, let me know if you are interest, we could talk from there

 

i love the 225/45-15 Toyo RA 1- $130 each unshaved- These with Rota 15 X 7 rims will be reasonably priced and RA 1 will last quite a while for R compound.

 

Don't you need off road tires for that track out there ....
I here it could use some work, or am I misinformed?

 

Setting aside appearance preferences, the only good reason to go with larger diameter wheels for track use is to accomodate larger brakes. For the street you have to be aware of changes to rolling diameter that will affect speedo readings. But for the track that's not an issue.

The biggest bang for the buck in brakes is a switch to serious track pads and really good brake fluid. The BBK's do offer more braking potential, but you might be surprised what you can get out of the stock stuff witht he right pads. If you do stay with the stock brakes, going with 15 inch wheels allows you to get really light wheels. That's great for handling and helpful from an acceleration and braking standpoint. You might also consider the Kosei K1 TS.

You will still probably want to avoid really radical changes to rolling diameter, since there is an effect on gearing. But as long as you can put the power down w/o spinning the wheels, the gearing change usually helps with acceleration and rarely interferes with top speed. Most tracks we'll go to won't have long enough straights to allow us to top out anyway.

As for tires, the Falkens are probably the ticket if you want to stay away from R compounds. I usually try to persuade people to stay on street tires for 20 track days. They skills you learn now on street tires are an investment that will pay off big later when you do switch to R compounds. When you are ready to make the switch, I whole-heartedly endorse Toyo RA-1's, They wear well, and are very consistent throughout a session and thoughout the life of the tire. I've also heard seriously good things about Avon Tech R's.

 

I run 15" OZ Superleggras on track with 225/50/15 Toyo RA-1s. I tried the Hankooks last year, they lasted me six 2 hour track nights and then started to blister. I've done four 2 hour nights and 2 full days (one in the rain) on the RA-1s and they are still good. Awesome tire. A little more expensive but worth it IMO.

On the subject of wheels. The OZs i have are incredibly light 10.6lbs each! however it is too agressive of an offset if you are planning on lowering the car (which I did). They fitted fine on my old '02 which ran stock suspension. With the H-Sports I find a minor rub on occasion (very rare) on the fender liner. If you do plan on running the OZs then try a 215/50/15 instead.

OZs look brilliant though, I am starting to prefer them to the 17" OZs that I use for the street

Amit

 

eMINI brings up a great point about BBK. I was set on the BBK but have read that you are better off putting proper pads, brake fluid, stainless lines, and slotted rotors. You can run the lighter 15" wheel saving rotational mass and not add access weight of a BBK.

Having the fluid properly bleed and replaced with quality racing fluid makes a huge difference too. I'm running stock brakes with just racing fluid and have had no problem all summer. Also depends on how you use your brakes on-track too.

Amit

 

But lets not forget that I lost about 5lbs a wheel with my TCE BBK. You can put a reasonably priced wheel at 15 lbs, then the Toyo RA1 205-40-17 at 19 lbs. That gets me about 29 lbs a corner.
The 10 lb 15" wheel and the 23 lb RA-1 225-50-15 tire gets you 33 lbs a corner.
I gotcha by 4 lbs and I can stop faster ..

17" wheels and tires with BBK = 23 lbs
15" wheels and tires with stock brakes = 33lbs

 

Onsled, good point, but don't you like big black baloons filling your fender well when people see I'm running 225/50/15s, they are like WTF? Looks like a dragster with the wide tires.

My other friends use the Yokohama A032R. Cheaper than the Toyos. I'm not sure how they are though. Anyone had experience with these? How about the Victoracers?

RA1s

Amit

 

Any idea on how the weight distribution differences between the bigger/smaller wheels, and the bigger/smaller brakes, compares?

 

True, some of that weight saved with the BBK is not rotational, just unsprung.

Actually I don't use the lightweight 205-40-17s any longer as I now am opting for a wider footprint with the 235-40-17s. I have yet to conclude if there is any gain to that change.

 

Good to know.
I was considering changing from 205/40/17 to 235/40/17 and wondered how beneficial this would be.
Also, I'm switching from Hoosiers R3S04 to Toyo RA-1.
The Hoosiers are great but only last a couple of weekends.

 

I'm with you on the TCE BBK. That would likely be my choice because of the weight savings. But remember I was talking about bang for the buck. The tires, wheels and replacement pads will cost less with the 15 inch setup, not to mention the purchase price of the BBK. It's cheaper at startup and cheaper at replacement time.

Incidentally, there's a typo in your post where it should read:

The tire/wheel combo is 34 lbs. But you're right that after adjusting for the lighter brakes the 17 inch package is ~4 lbs lighter.



I would propose the use of a 205/50/15 RA-1 instead of the wider but heavier 225/50/15 both for the weight improvement (-3 lbs) and the gearing improvement making the 15" package only 1 lb heavier in total.

To compare the alternatives:

17 inch package
1 lbs less unsprung weight (better handling)
larger rotors and pads for more swept area (better braking)
multi-piston calipers (better braking)
23.5 inch rolling diameter


15 inch package
4 lbs less rotational weight (improved braking and acceleration)
23.1 inch rolling diameter (gearing advantage - better acceleration)

There are pros and cons to both setups. In a back to back comparison on the track it would be close. In a checkbook comparison, the 15 inch package should cost less, though I didn't price out the wheels. Tires are about $160 less for four. Even the great deal that the TCE kit is still costs over $1000, right?


On another note: Thanks for leading the charge to get a Road Racing forum started.

 

Although that was part of what i meant, I was actually more curious about the effect of weight distribution in terms of the wheels and tires. Much more of the weight in the 17 inch wheel is positioned further from the center of the axle whereas the 15 inch wheels have much of their weight closer to the axle, especially if you are runner smaller diameter tires. I had always heard that having the weight closer to the center makes it easier to get into motion, while the weight being spread to the outside requires more energy to get moving. So i was just curious how big of a difference the weight distribution would make during acceleration.

 

I looked into 235's but thought I would have to run a 17x8 wheel to get full tire contact. I could not find any lite wheels for the MINI in that size.
Are you getting full contact with 17x7.5's?

 

No, not like I would like.
Actually an 8.5" wheel would be better. I'm looking into 9" wheels at the cost of about $500 a wheel.
But, the 235 does OK with the 7.5, but you need to run a bit higher pressure.

 

Whose wheels, what offset and how much do they weigh? I know, I ask a lot of questions.
Ok, now I am confused, I would have thought that more pressure with a narrowed rim would reduce your contact patch.

 

Too wide of a tire on a wheel will tend to roll. When I was running mid 30s psi I felt like the car was all over the place in the corners. I was, like you. a bit confused on what was going on. Ended up in the low 40s hot.

 

I don't know if they do this anymore but back in the day, we would chalk the tire to check the contact patch. Have you done something like that?

 

All the time ...

 

I was not sure, it has been over 35 years since the last I did that