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Ignition Coil Confusion

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Old 09-15-2018, 08:17 AM
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Ignition Coil Confusion

I think I need to replace my ignition coils on my 2013 Cooper Paceman S All 4

I'm getting intermittent hesitation between 2-3k rpm. I keep reading that Genuine Mini coils are actually made by Delphi. I did order a set of Delphi coils from ECSTuning but after initially seeming ok i'm still getting the hesitation.

Looking for clarification which coils are ACTUALLY the same as the genuine Mini parts. Has anybody ordered the Genuine Mini coils from ECS. Are they the same as from Mini?
 
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:21 AM
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Hello, All our Genuine MINI is the exact same thing as at the MINI dealership. Delphi coil is the same, they just had an update on MINI and Delphi, they have the extra sleeve and white neck. What did yours look like?
 
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:51 AM
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Delphi Ignition Coils

The coils that were originally installed in my car were Delphi and had the same part number as the ones you sell for $25 each. I ordered a set of these thinking they were stock. My problem of hesitation between 2-3k rpm is still there so now Iím thinking that I should have ordered the Genuine Mini ones, but Iím hesitant because Iíve already spent $200 to find out my fault is still there. Iíve also installed NGK platinum plugs but fault still there.

Im wondering if I order the Genuine Mini kit that you sell is going to solve my issue. I keep reading that these engines only really work well with the stock coils and plugs.

Just out of curiousity, the photo of your kit shows 2 different coils. One with white rubber and the other 3 have the black rubber boots. When I ordered the last set from you I actually received 3 of one type and then 1 with the white boot, but kudos to you guys you did send me another coil at no extra charge so I now have 4 matching coils.

Im just hesitant to order the Genuine Mini kit in case Iíll get what i already have.


 
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:50 AM
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Delphi may make the original MINI coils, but if you didn't buy Geniune MINI box coils they are not the same. Yes Yes I know they are made by the same company and "effectively" the same part. But that really isn't true. When companies sell their parts to the aftermarket that version doesn't have to meet the same standard that MINI/BMW requires so even though they are the the "same" they actually aren't. We run into this all the time with various parts and coils are for sure one of them as the Non Genuine MINI coils don't work as well and tend to fail more often. Or they actually put out less voltage and have a weaker spark which may work for an average car, but if pushing it or a tuned car they quickly don't hold up.
We also run into this with water pumps, fans, and various other parts. So don't be fooled just because the same company makes doesn't mean it's a good part.
This is why I don't offer the cheaper aftermarket coils as I don't want to confuse customers. These are the original MINI coils
https://www.waymotorworks.com/direct...9-r60-r61.html
 
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrshooby View Post
The coils that were originally installed in my car were Delphi and had the same part number as the ones you sell for $25 each. I ordered a set of these thinking they were stock. My problem of hesitation between 2-3k rpm is still there so now Iím thinking that I should have ordered the Genuine Mini ones, but Iím hesitant because Iíve already spent $200 to find out my fault is still there. Iíve also installed NGK platinum plugs but fault still there.

Im wondering if I order the Genuine Mini kit that you sell is going to solve my issue. I keep reading that these engines only really work well with the stock coils and plugs.

Just out of curiousity, the photo of your kit shows 2 different coils. One with white rubber and the other 3 have the black rubber boots. When I ordered the last set from you I actually received 3 of one type and then 1 with the white boot, but kudos to you guys you did send me another coil at no extra charge so I now have 4 matching coils.

Im just hesitant to order the Genuine Mini kit in case Iíll get what i already have.



Thanks for showing us this, we will have the pics updated, they just had a change over from the old stock just like genuine MINI did a couple months before. We have guys here that switched over to the newer design delphis which are the same as the newer design Genuine MINI. No Issues.

I would get the newest design, we had just recently a couple of the older black boot ones have issues like it was the end of the run and they have been hit or miss, we just removed that stock. Please contact our sales team and let them know you want the newer design. That should solve the issues.
Thanks
 
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:43 AM
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Update

Hereís the update.

Due to me being Canada I opted to buy the plugs and coils from my local Mini dealer. The plugs I received are actually made by Champion and the coils are identical to the Delphi $25 ones for sale on ECS. This being said I had little faith that installing these was going to fix my hesitation and skipping issue.

As suspected, my issue is still there!!

now Iím suspecting a fuelling problem. The skipping is always worse at 2,300-2500rpm. I just donít get why it only happens for that small rpm range. Could it be a faulty injector? Fuel pump?

Pains me to think about handing my car over to the dealer but Iím running out of ideas here.

I would be interested to hear if anybody else has ever had this issue.
 
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:29 PM
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Have you read diagnostic codes from OBD?
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:44 AM
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Thatís actually my next step. Have to get myself a scan tool.
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:53 AM
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You installed Champion spark plugs.. thats pretty scary. Those plugs are for lawn mowers. **NGK for example knows the difference in spark heat ranges and rates their plugs accordingly.. where as Champion takes the "yeah this plug will work in any Mini" approach and go ahead and use the plug no matter what heat range you need.

*Id just like to ask first - Why on earth did you start replacing coils due a slight hesitation issue? What would every give you the indication that the coils would be the cause after so few miles?
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cornjuice View Post
*Id just like to ask first - Why on earth did you start replacing coils due a slight hesitation issue? What would every give you the indication that the coils would be the cause after so few miles?
I'll take the blame. I was having a similar sounding issue, and OEM plugs/coils fixed it, so I suggested that may fix it. Without actually driving each other's cars, it's hard to say if it was really the same issue, but it sounded very similar.
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:32 AM
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The Champion plugs were the ones supplied by the Mini dealer. I too was surprised to see they were Champion but Iím trusting that BMW/Mini would supply the correct plugs.

My coils were original from what I could tell, 5 years old and the car has 55,000kms on it now.

Now i I have this sick feeling that I have no faith in the dealership whatsoever.
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:38 AM
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Well i have ~135000km on my OEM coils.. they are going fine with no signs of any issues (6yrs they are). As for spark plugs - I would highly recommend NGK ..they are used far and wide by the tuning community for all manner of Mini engine..and with good results too.

*In regard to the stumble issue you are experiencing - I would look toward fuel and spark as the primary cause. ~3k is where the turbo starts spooling and fuel and spark settings start changing rapidly. Something as simple as a clogged fuel filter could be causing the issue you have.
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:47 AM
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Thanks for the advice.

I did think fuel fuel filter but wouldnít that cause issues across a wider rpm range?

This issue specifically occurs between 2300 and 2500rpm in gears 3-6. The higher the gear the worse it gets.

Ill replace the fuel filter anyway.
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:46 AM
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the higher the gear = the more load on the engine

*typically the clogged filters cause a weak supply in an area of teh RPM range.. your fuel pressure greatly increases right about the 2-3k mark (goes from like 700psi to 1700). An OBDII reader/scanner will help show you current fuel pressure, engine timing (spark), MAF intake level, EGT, boost pressure, vacuum.. and more. It will also let you know if your car is throwing any diag codes (which dont always = a CEL).

If it idles fine and pulls good in the upper RPM range, its not likely to be spark related.. more likely its something related to fueling/fuel pressure (like clogged filter, weak primary fuel pump, fuel rail pressure regulator, clogged injector). Ever try a Seafoam treatment? It can help remove buildup from the injector heads (which are in the combustion chamber).
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:18 AM
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Trying to source a fuel filter but I can't find anything. Does anyone know if its part of the fuel pump?

I think I need to get a scan tool first. Any recommendations?
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:21 AM
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Also, has anybody tried the Seafoam treatment. Im a little sceptical of doing it. Read a few negative stories about it.
 

Last edited by Mrshooby; 09-23-2018 at 09:42 AM. Reason: Spelling error
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:44 PM
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As far as a scan tool, I can personally recommend the Schwaben scan tool from ECS Tuning, I have one, it works as advertised, quite well. Be aware when shopping for a scan tool, most of the options out there will not read all of the codes on your MINI. The Schwaben does.
You May want to look towards the HPFP for your issue? I would use only the factory plugs and coils unless you use NGK plugs. Most of us with tunes use NGK 1422’s which are colder than stock plugs. Mine came with Beru plugs from the factory, which is what i always used before tuning. As far as the coils go.... what Way has posted is very interesting and informative, I had not heard this before. When I replaced my last set of coils, I went on to realoem.com and found the part # then ordered the same part from Delphi. The coils I got are identical in every way I can tell, except for the MINI logo being missing. No issues at all, works just like they should, at about half the price. Not sure if using identical part numbers like that is what Way is talking about, but if so, I guess I got lucky.
Good luck, and let us know what you find out
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:50 PM
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Factory plugs and coils, thatís the thing! I just got them directly from BMW/Mini and they sold me Champion plugs and the Delphi coils had no Mini emblems on them. They were all in sealed BMW parts boxes.

Now im just so confused and donít trust the dealership. Is this just a Canadian thing?
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:06 PM
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This is the box that the BMW/Mini Champion spark plug came in $30 cad each

This is the coil from BMW ($133 cad) and the same Delphi coil that I got from ECS for $25 (US)
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:18 PM
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The coils look like the ones I bought too, they should work especially if you got them from Mini, lol. I would have to check the part numbers, but that’s definitely a Delphi package. I honestly don’t know about the plugs! That seems odd to me, that they gave you Champion plugs....Now, with that being said, they did come from a Mini dealership? I guess it’s kinda hard to argue against it coming from Mini, but personally, I would use exactly the same ones as what was removed from the car (if OEM), or NGK’s, but that’s just me. Is Mini using Champion plugs now as OEM parts? Does anybody know?
Good luck, and keep us informed on your progress.
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:22 PM
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Champion is just the cheapest ***** possible.. the plug goes for 7.99 each in the US :( and its listed as cross-compatible for the NGK - Cooper, S, & JCW part#'s... which by NGK are 3 different plugs.
*thats spooky to me
 
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:32 PM
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Where do I go from here. I got the plugs from Mini as I thought Iíd be getting the most genuine superior product. Now I feel totally screwed over. I took my NGK platinums out and installed the Mini Champion plugs.
 
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:51 AM
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Champion bought Beru plugs a little while ago . Beru were the factory plugs and now Berus say Champion on them. So the plugs are correct, Did you check the Gap on the plugs ? too large a gap will also cause this as the boost at lower RPM will actually blow the spark or flame out. lets get that out of the way. Also the coils you got are the old part number and were replaced in 2013 by Mini Part number 12138616153 . Couple of questions, Any mods ? what brand and octane level of fuel are you using?

I have 2 R60's both have had this issue and both new plugs ( NGK 1422) and Coils fixed the issue. These cars need 91 or 93 octane ( depends on where you live) and a top tier gas ( look it up).
 

Last edited by ke3ee; 09-24-2018 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:03 AM
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Thatís good to know about the plugs. I donít feel so bad now.

As as for the coils. The ones in the Delphi boxes were provided by ECS and the same part number coils in the white box were from Mini. The guy looked up the VIN for my 2013 R61 and came back with these.

I actually have 3 sets of plugs now. Original Beru, NGK Platinums and the Mini Champion plugs. The Champion plugs are gapped at 0.026Ē. Same as the NGK. The Beru were around 0.030Ē due to them being older I believe.

I think my plug gaps are ok as the issue I am having occurs before the boost period. After driving the car again I actually notice the random hesitation across most of the lower rpm range but itís really noticeable in the 2200-2500rpm range. Which leads me to think that this could be a fuel issue. The highest octane gas I can find locally is 91 which I know isnít ideal. It states that it is Top Tier but I donít think that means a lot.

Im surprised that there isnít a separate fuel filter, itís combined with the pump in the tank. I would have liked to have replaced that first to see if it made any improvement.

Ive been reading a lot about the HPFP issues but Iím not sure if that starts out like my symptom or is it a total failure of the pump.

I have put some seafoam in the gas to see if that helps at all and Iím going to get a scan tool to see if there are any codes to point me in the right direction.
 
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