R60 :: Countryman Talk (2010-2015) R60 Cooper and Cooper S hatchback discussion NOT REPAIR RELATED Discussions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: DashLynx

R60 Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 10-06-2016, 10:16 PM
grussell's Avatar
grussell
grussell is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4

The clutch failed in our CMS less than a month after we bought it. The Mini only has 32k miles. So, today I decided to replace the clutch myself after studying a write up in the R56 forum. Initially I was of the impression the All4 would be more difficult, but after tonight not so much. I did hit a snag when I went to remove the driveshaft from the transfer case. I don't have a wrench big enough to fit the large nut at the front of the driveshaft as it's around 2" and nothing is open this late. Once the driveshaft is out I can drop the subframe and then go after dropping the transmission. Here are some pictures 5 hours into the job
 
Attached Thumbnails Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161006_225946.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161006_230021.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161006_230032.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161006_230041.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161006_230054.jpg  

Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161006_230107.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161006_230124.jpg  

Last edited by grussell; 10-06-2016 at 10:21 PM.
  #2  
Old 10-08-2016, 09:30 AM
gdmaddog's Avatar
gdmaddog
gdmaddog is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Are you replacing with an OEM clutch or is there something more robust in the aftermarket?
 
  #3  
Old 10-09-2016, 11:51 AM
grussell's Avatar
grussell
grussell is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Sachs dual mass flywheel and Valeo clutch and pressure plate There are plenty of robust options out there.
 
The following users liked this post:
Urbanr60 (05-04-2020)
  #4  
Old 10-14-2016, 07:34 AM
grussell's Avatar
grussell
grussell is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Finished the clutch job. The All4 makes it a bigger job. Took me a while to figure out how to remove the driveshaft. I could not find any info on which way the driveshaft nut loosens at the transfer box. Finally figured it out. It loosens toward the driver side. Then the transfer box has to be detached from the transmission in order to get to a bell housing bolt, but the transfer bax can not be removed until the transmission is pulled away from the engine. Ugh. The original clutch was wasted. The clutch plate on the pressure plate side was worn down to metal and the flywheel had micro cracks from the heat. The clutch failed suddenly and by the looks of shredded clutch plate material all in the bell housing, pressure plate and behind the flywheel I understand why. The clutch plate wore down to the rivets and then came loose all at once. Metal on metal gives no grip. Anyway here are a few more pictures.
 
Attached Thumbnails Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161011_124902.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-20161011_125809.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-clutch-plate1.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-clutch-plate2.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-flywheel.jpg  

Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-pressure-plate.jpg  
  #5  
Old 10-18-2016, 07:45 PM
Puma|Mini's Avatar
Puma|Mini
Puma|Mini is offline
3rd Gear
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just had my 2015 R60 clutch replaced by the dealer (20k miles on the dot). Apparently this is STILL an issue...
 
  #6  
Old 11-07-2016, 11:28 AM
MiniToBe's Avatar
MiniToBe
MiniToBe is offline
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 4,330
Received 427 Likes on 393 Posts
Originally Posted by grussell
The clutch failed in our CMS less than a month after we bought it. The Mini only has 32k miles. So, today I decided to replace the clutch myself after studying a write up in the R56 forum. Initially I was of the impression the All4 would be more difficult, but after tonight not so much. I did hit a snag when I went to remove the driveshaft from the transfer case. I don't have a wrench big enough to fit the large nut at the front of the driveshaft as it's around 2" and nothing is open this late. Once the driveshaft is out I can drop the subframe and then go after dropping the transmission. Here are some pictures 5 hours into the job
How did you get the lower control arm out. I tried hammering it with a mullet but wont budge
 
  #7  
Old 11-07-2016, 12:51 PM
Crazy Airborne's Avatar
Crazy Airborne
Crazy Airborne is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 42
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by MiniToBe
hammering it with a mullet but wont budge

I dont think thats recommended!
 
  #8  
Old 11-07-2016, 12:53 PM
MiniToBe's Avatar
MiniToBe
MiniToBe is offline
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 4,330
Received 427 Likes on 393 Posts
mAllet but seriously, what is the best way to get it out?
 
  #9  
Old 11-07-2016, 12:54 PM
JustinGTP's Avatar
JustinGTP
JustinGTP is offline
5th Gear
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Puma|Mini
Just had my 2015 R60 clutch replaced by the dealer (20k miles on the dot). Apparently this is STILL an issue...
Was it covered under warranty?
 
  #10  
Old 11-07-2016, 04:24 PM
808keith's Avatar
808keith
808keith is offline
4th Gear
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: HaWaI'I
Posts: 312
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Wow.. When I was in the process of buying my countryman, the carfax sheet said the clutch was inspected. So I had to call the dealership that did the inspection and ask them what that meant on the carfax. The SA ran the vin and came back that they replaced all the clutch related items under warranty because of the faulty material. That was the tipping point to buy or not was if the clutch was done..
 
  #11  
Old 11-20-2016, 04:47 PM
grussell's Avatar
grussell
grussell is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by MiniToBe
How did you get the lower control arm out. I tried hammering it with a mullet but wont budge
I removed the ball joint from the wheel spindle with a small chisel to work it out. There was a lot of corrosion. This methods does not damage the ball joint.
 
  #12  
Old 11-21-2016, 06:20 AM
MiniToBe's Avatar
MiniToBe
MiniToBe is offline
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 4,330
Received 427 Likes on 393 Posts
i will try that. did you use a 50mm to get the transfer case freed from the shaft?
 
  #13  
Old 11-21-2016, 08:01 PM
grussell's Avatar
grussell
grussell is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Don't tell anybody, but I used a pipe wrench on the driveshaft nut and big channel lock pliers on the transfer case. When I pulled on the pipe wrench the channel lock wedged in place on the sub-frame. It sounds rudimentary, but worked. Replace the nut and your good to go.
 
  #14  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:56 AM
All4vin's Avatar
All4vin
All4vin is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
thanks

Thank you for posting this.
I will be doing this on my wife's 2012. The Bentley manual does not include the All4 cars. It is the first All4 clutch replacement I've seen on the web.


Car is about to hit 50k miles. Clutch still grabs but it's "tricky" sometimes and once in a while I tend to ride it a bit switching gear.
 
  #15  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:29 AM
bro_hof's Avatar
bro_hof
bro_hof is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
How'd you get the transfer case to come clear of the transmission? I got mine about 90% of the way out and then the transfer case ran into the lower control arm. I really want to avoid pulling the transmission to get the dang transfer case out. I'm just replacing the transfer case in my '12 CM as it's humming and leaking.
 
  #16  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:35 AM
All4vin's Avatar
All4vin
All4vin is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by bro_hof
How'd you get the transfer case to come clear of the transmission? I got mine about 90% of the way out and then the transfer case ran into the lower control arm. I really want to avoid pulling the transmission to get the dang transfer case out. I'm just replacing the transfer case in my '12 CM as it's humming and leaking.
I'm curious if you had removed the splined shaft from the transfercase before attempting to remove?
 
  #17  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:46 AM
grussell's Avatar
grussell
grussell is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
I had removed the sub frame before removing the transfer case. To get clearance for the transfer case the transmission has to be moved over an inch or two.
 
  #18  
Old 12-13-2016, 07:02 AM
All4vin's Avatar
All4vin
All4vin is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
see instructions

Are you guys removing the circlip with splined shaft first as shown in the third image?
 
Attached Thumbnails Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-1.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-2.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-3.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-4.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-5.jpg  

Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-6.jpg  
  #19  
Old 12-13-2016, 07:38 AM
bro_hof's Avatar
bro_hof
bro_hof is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by All4vin
Are you guys removing the circlip with splined shaft first as shown in the third image?
I did not, are you saying the whole shaft slides out of the TC housing? Not seeing how that is accomplished in the pics. Wait, the clip holds the shaft in, then the whole shaft must be able to shift to the right and out of the tranny. HOLY CRAP, I'm going to check on my new (used) transfer case and see if it's really that easy.

One last question, how do you replace the nut and seal on the transfer case that attaches to the rear driveshaft at the transfer case, got a procedure on that one?
 

Last edited by bro_hof; 12-13-2016 at 07:44 AM.
  #20  
Old 12-13-2016, 07:57 AM
All4vin's Avatar
All4vin
All4vin is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
Yea I believe these posts about having to move trans/ hitting control arm is because that step is being skipped and there is no room.


Hold on I will post the procedure for the big nut. It's a reverse thread single-use nut.
 
  #21  
Old 12-13-2016, 08:13 AM
All4vin's Avatar
All4vin
All4vin is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
big nut

as requested
 
Attached Thumbnails Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-7.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-8.jpg   Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4-9.jpg  
  #22  
Old 12-13-2016, 08:22 AM
bro_hof's Avatar
bro_hof
bro_hof is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by All4vin
as requested
Beautiful, you just saved me $400 my friend. I plan on taking apart my bad transfer case to see if I can figure out what fails in these things. I literally have to put new oil in my TC every day as it is dripping out of the tail shaft seal that connects to the rear driveshaft. The fill plug magnet has been full of metal as well for the last month, it must be ugly in there.

I am planning on documenting my replacement with pics for anyone else out there that needs to replace their transfer case.

All said and done I have spent the following (so far)

$864 for a used transfer case on ebay
$20 for a new driveshaft seal and nut
$20 for Royal Purple 75W-90 GL5 gear oil (for the transfer case)
$20 for Royal Purple manual transmission oil (don't remember the viscosity)

All in $924 for a new (used) transfer case
 
  #23  
Old 12-13-2016, 08:29 AM
All4vin's Avatar
All4vin
All4vin is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by bro_hof
I am planning on documenting my replacement with pics for anyone else out there that needs to replace their transfer case.

That would be great. I was just going to ask you if you'd mind posting some pics. There is not much All4 specific how-to stuff out there.


As a side note- To perform the oil solenoid repair harness on an All4, the transfer case must come out. Are you doing this while you have it out? I sure would....
 
  #24  
Old 12-13-2016, 08:40 AM
MiniToBe's Avatar
MiniToBe
MiniToBe is offline
6th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 4,330
Received 427 Likes on 393 Posts
check car-part.com for the TC. should be cheaper in there
 
  #25  
Old 12-13-2016, 09:26 AM
bro_hof's Avatar
bro_hof
bro_hof is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by All4vin
That would be great. I was just going to ask you if you'd mind posting some pics. There is not much All4 specific how-to stuff out there.


As a side note- To perform the oil solenoid repair harness on an All4, the transfer case must come out. Are you doing this while you have it out? I sure would....
Solenoid was already replaced by the dealer under warranty about a year ago

Thanks for the guidance!
 


Quick Reply: R60 Replacing the clutch in our CMS All4



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:41 PM.