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R60 Thinking of switching from Cooper S to CM S

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Old 08-23-2011, 06:02 AM
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Thinking of switching from Cooper S to CM S

I'm torn. I got a call from my local dealer saying they are really in need of used Mini's and are giving good deals on trades. I know the market right now for cars with great fuel economy is better than it has been lately.

I love my '08 MCS but I am considering trading it in for a new CMS. I am curious to hear if any of you have made the switch from an MCS to the CMS and what you like about the move and what you don't like about the move.

I know there have been some upgrades to the standard features and available options than what I had back in '08, so I would definitely be able to get some more bells and whistles, but do I really want to give up my perfectly good MCS?

I appreciate the pros and cons from those who have followed this path.

Thanks and motor on!
 
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:40 AM
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I have a R53 MCS and now a R60 MCCM. Although the R60 has some very cool new features and options that are really neat, it is still tough to compare one to the other. We bought our R60 as a replacement to our sedan, and is doing great as a family car. Lots of room for the kiddo and her stuff, in addition to the gear we cart around. But they are still two different MINIs.

If you need the extra space, I would say go for it. The R60 does drive like MINI, maybe a little more body roll and certainly a bigger rear end, but still a MINI. And the extra options are fun too. But... if you bought your hardtop because you like its small size and stout standing, keep it.

To be short, when it's the family going someplace we take the Countryman, when it is just my wife and I, we take the hardtop.
 
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:27 AM
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What camminich said is spot on. I still have my R53- The Countryman is a great car but could not replace my R53.
 
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:14 AM
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I had an '02 R53.

It is the most awesome car I have ever had the pleasure of driving. It hugs the road and goes around corners like nothing else for the $25k I paid for it. I put around 9,000 miles on it every year. Sold it to one of my best friends who has (so far) taken really good care of it).

We upgraded to an R60 in March. It already has 9,000 miles on it.

It's a totally different car, yet still a MINI.

It's a MINI I can fit 4 people in.
It's MINI I can take to IKEA and buy a whole bunch of garden furniture.
It's a MINI with all-wheel-drive (hopefully we'll go play in snow this winter)

I'm also surprised about the auto box (the R53 was a manual) - it's a pain in the *** to get used to, but OMG, visiting The Big City (San Francisco) is so much less of a pain in the ***.

I love MINI Connected. I really enjoy dropping all the windows (all 4 of them!) and opening the sunroof to drive around on warm days.

Ultimately, it's your call. Drive one. Make sure it's an S. If you want a stick, drive the stick first. I was pleasantly surprised on my test drive.

Just my humble opinion.
 
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:18 AM
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I traded in my R56 for an R60 with All4 and have to say I'm loving the change. Living here in CO, the All4 was really all the difference I needed; spent last winter drifting more than driving and am looking forward to heading up into the mountains this winter with a little more control behind me. It is bigger, but I love the added bit of space.
 
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:26 AM
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If you like the way your current car drives you will be disappointed in the CM. It is not an R56. Regardless of the hype. I'll tell ya what, lets a hit a road course, any course, you take the CM and I'll take the R56. I bet you anything I will get to where I want to go before you.

But to be fair if you need the space, you need the 4wd awd, less fuel economy and, and, and, then the CM may be for you.

It really has to be a decision based on need not emotions. If you need the space and the 4 WD it's better than a Kia or other such animal. If you really don't and just hear the call of a new Mini, why bother just buy the new Coupe and call it a day.

Now Motor On!!
 
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:13 PM
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We traded in our 06 MCS for a CM. We were having twins so we had to get rid of the MCS. While the CM does handle like a mini it will not be the same level of control and "go-kart" handling as your MCS. It is peppy but probably won't feel as peppy as your MCS. You definitely need to drive one to see the difference. I can't go tearing around corners at crazy speeds like I could with our MCS....Yes I can tear around corners....just not quite as fast in the CM.
 
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:27 PM
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I've driven both, and I don't think anybody can seriously claim that the R60 handles as well as the R56. I also don't think I've heard anybody make that claim.

The R60 handles really well for what it is, and it's a neat, well-executed car. It's peppy and responsive and a blast to drive. If you step directly from an R56 into an R60, you will notice a significant loss in both the pickup and the handling, and what else would you expect?

So, compared to the hardtop, the Countryman isn't as tight and fun a car to drive, but compared to anything else similar, the Countryman is great. If you need the little bit of extra space and/or the AWD, it's an amazing compromise.
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:56 AM
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Dealer is calling that they need used cars? That's an interesting sales pitch to get you to buy a new car... I would stick with the R56 for a little longer and see what the refreshed hatch looks like.
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:55 AM
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I traded in my R56 MCS for my CM All4, and love, love, love the decision. The CM is just all around a better car, the added room, what I feel is better build quality, the flexability, and most importantly the AWD. I'm on a road trip right now through Maine, NH, and VT, and the handling + AWD on the mountain roads is blowing even my R56 away. I liked my MCS very much, but the CM might be my favorite car I have ever own.
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JudgeS View Post
I'm on a road trip right now through Maine, NH, and VT, and the handling + AWD on the mountain roads is blowing even my R56 away.
I have a very hard time buying that. I see no way that a CM can drive and handle the curves more efficiently that a R56. I think you have been drinking the cool aid. :-)

But I understand that perception is reality.

Pat
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:45 AM
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Walk0080 is right on target. The dealer wants to sell more cars period. They do not need any used ones. They just want to make money on selling you a new one.

It is obviously a solid "Sales Tactic" because it actually has you thinking about it.
I can not believe "Walk0080" is the only person that commented on this.

In the end, Drive what you want. Sell yourself, Do not be Sold!
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:51 AM
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My Realator called yesterday and said they are really in need of some older 1,500 square foot homes and are giving some good deals on their new 2,000 square foot homes.

Should I trade?
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:57 AM
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we'll yea if the deal is right! :-)
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:36 AM
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Thank you all for the great input! And yes, had I not received the call from the dealer, that seed would not have been planted into my head. Gullible maybe? Me thinks so!

I really love my MCS. It is such a fun ride and the best handling car I have ever owned, including my old Miata. I really think the thought of something new and the upgrades to some of the things that I don't have is what is getting me to consider this.

I don't, however, think I will go through with it at this time. I don't need the space. I live in So FLA so a 4WD is far from a requirement! I don't have kids to cart around. So, after reading some of your comments, I do think the R60 is a nice concept and a great car, but I am going to keep what I have....for now.

Now the Coupe on the other hand....
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:52 AM
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I have an '09 MCS. My girlfriend picked up a Countryman S All4 in early May. Yes, the Countryman drives differently, but still similarly enough to carry on that MINI spirit (and spirited driving!).

I loved the Countryman from the first time I saw the secret photos. I've driven both, and I still love the Countryman, though without sport mode on, it's doggy to start. I've even been tempted to trade my R56 in on a Countryman, but not for any particular reason. I also live in Colorado (Boulder), and the R56 has been amazingly reliable and solid in deep snow (other than snowplowing with the air deflector ). If the Countryman's mileage was a little better, I'd be more tempted, but I'm not willing to make the sacrifice of that for a bigger car. Though the storage space available in a Countryman is sooooo nice.
 
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by captsprocket View Post

Now the Coupe on the other hand....
Now your talking. I think that is the only way to upgrade that makes real sense to me. Plus you get a much larger boot to boot.

I don't know about you but I have never had anyone in the back seat of my Mini since I owned it. But I have on several occasions needed more boot space. The Coupe from my perspective make the most sense and the car is going to be a head turner. Thus the reason I ordered a JCW. I also received the marketing material from my local dealer that they need trades etc. I was not interested in the least until the Coupe came around. Now it all makes sense.

Regards,

Pat
 
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PatM View Post
I have a very hard time buying that. I see no way that a CM can drive and handle the curves more efficiently that a R56. I think you have been drinking the cool aid. :-)

But I understand that perception is reality.

Pat
Simple no wheel spin or torque steer, AWD > FWD anyday!
 
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:31 PM
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Nope don't buy it. CM has too much roll and weight and higher center of gravity. The MCS in my hands (and most others) will out corner, out accelerate, and be able to take higher G's then the heavier CM, even with AWD. Every review I have ever seen concerning the handling of the CM as compared to the MCS bears that out.
 
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:40 PM
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I agree that the handling doesn't hold up to the R56 on the corners (for the reasons PatM cited), but I don't agree with the "don't buy" it recommendation. It does a number of things that the R56 doesn't, and the handling is fantastic, just not go kart fantastic.

I've always said that it was a great compromise car. It gets you most of what's fun about the R56 while giving you a few things you might need (ALL4, back seats, cargo space) that would keep you out of one.
 
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JudgeS View Post
Simple no wheel spin or torque steer, AWD > FWD anyday!
New MCS have little torque steer due to updated software. The biggest issue IMO under spirited driving is that the MCS lacks the EDLC / electronic limited slip that is included with the hatch JCW.

I've driven a MCS and Countryman S back to back on an autocross style track and the MCS beat it hands down, even without the EDLC. Now if the MCS had all wheel drive, then yes, maybe MCS AWD > MCS FWD.

Now this is a bit of a silly argument since most of us either want a MCS hath or a Countryman S due to sizing issues and comparing the two is apples to oranges. If I absolutely needed more space and the Clubman was too small, I would probably not even consider a MINI and rather go for a sporty sedan.
 
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
I agree that the handling doesn't hold up to the R56 on the corners (for the reasons PatM cited), but I don't agree with the "don't buy" it recommendation. It does a number of things that the R56 doesn't, and the handling is fantastic, just not go kart fantastic.

I've always said that it was a great compromise car. It gets you most of what's fun about the R56 while giving you a few things you might need (ALL4, back seats, cargo space) that would keep you out of one.
I would never tell someone not to buy the CM. It has it's market and purpose and I'm sure it does it's intended purpose well. I just don't have a need for the CM.

I think they are two different buyers. My comment was to the fact that JudheS said his CM blew away the handling of an R56. Still don't buy it.
 
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PatM View Post
I would never tell someone not to buy the CM. It has it's market and purpose and I'm sure it does it's intended purpose well. I just don't have a need for the CM.

I think they are two different buyers. My comment was to the fact that JudheS said his CM blew away the handling of an R56. Still don't buy it.
Oh, ok. I was confused. I get what you mean now. You don't buy the handling; you weren't advising the guy not to buy. Having driven both an R56 and R60 manual (and having bought the R60), I agree with you. On some surfaces, I'm sure the ALL4 handles better, but on pavement, I don't see how the AWD gives you any real advantage that could overcome the extra roll.
 
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by walk0080 View Post
New MCS have little torque steer due to updated software.
I owned my 2008 R56 for three years, and it had a ton of torque steer, not as much as say my fwd A3 (although that was putting down close to 270 hp), but still pretty bad as with every fwd car with any sort of power I have ever driven (some have certainly been better than others). The countryman may not have the exact go-cart feel of the MCS, but its a lot closer than one would expect. I find it much more sure footed and more fun to drive because of the better grip.

Certainly an MCS with AWD would be better, but for my driving experience the CM with it is better than the MCS without.
 
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
Oh, ok. I was confused. I get what you mean now. You don't buy the handling; you weren't advising the guy not to buy. Having driven both an R56 and R60 manual (and having bought the R60), I agree with you. On some surfaces, I'm sure the ALL4 handles better, but on pavement, I don't see how the AWD gives you any real advantage that could overcome the extra roll.
Exactly!
 

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