Let's get one current thread on this subject.

See this BMW article and movie of a BMW employee explaining the "feel" of the new BMW turbo engine:

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/news/vi...rbo-158952.php

Sure, there MAY be a measurable time it takes for the turbo to go from low load/low boost to maximum boost, but if the driver does not experience it, if all he "feels" is a steady and constant rush forward, then there is no real world "Turbo/throttle lag". To the driver he is driving a larger normally aspirated engine.

That is the BMW goal for the new 335i engine and hopefully the same result of the new MCS engine. We can all judge if they succeeded when they arrive late Winter. I would guess it will be at least as good as the VW/Audi 2.0T that gets relatively little complaints about lag and has many similarities.

 

you can never get rid of turbo lag unless you have some seriously small turbo's and then when you do that you wont have the ability to make good hp

 

After driving a few new 3 series BMW's on the track and through an autocross course (non-turbo, of course)... I noticed some definate lag in the throttle responce.

I assumed it had somthing to do with the electronic gas pedal. Cars becoming more "drive by wire" and all.

Here's hoping the "sport" button on the S car will work as advertised.

 

According to American Honda, Acura engineers have virtually eliminated turbo lag on the 2007 RDX. Here is an article that states turbo lag barely exists:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...007_acura_rdx/

 

You guys really need to move out of 1982, when this screeching about excessive turbo lag had some merit; Sadly, most of the experiences with turbo lag on this board appear to be a result of stories passed down since the 1977 Porsche 930.

Perhaps if you read more up to date info, you'd learn about the variable nozzle/vane design, direct injection, and the advanced computer management of today's technology, rather than the horror stories of how cousin Edgar slapped a big 'ole turbo onto his K car and pointed the inlet towards the carb.....

Fact is, any mismatched combo- even a too-big of a roots-design supercharger- is going to experience objectionable lag.... It is the HEIGHT of ignorance to condemn a design based soley on what you "think" may be a problem.

BMW isn't in the habit of releasing sh*tty-performing cars, so if they are telling me they dont' have issues with "turbo lag", than I'm not too worried- because last time I checked, I wasn't as bright as the boys in Bavaria.

Dunno where that leaves you, tho...... Maybe you're designing rockets for NASA- in that case, you have my apologies.....

LOL!

 

My first new car was a turbo-charged 64 Corvair Spyder....did it have turbo-lag? Sure it did, but it was fast and I loved it anyway. Shutting down 390 Fords and seeing the look of astonishment on the drivers was great fun.

That was 64, this is 2006, there ain't gonna be any turbo lag that matters.

 

but can this probable turbo lag be any worse than the current supercharged car's tendency to hesitate and stumble, esp. in 2nd gear?

 

I drive a 2005 saab 9 2x, better known as a saabaru. It is a subaru wrx wagon styled to look like a saab. The turbo lag is considerable even after remaping, a 3" exhaust, lighten crank pulley and freer breathing. All the mods greatly improoved driveability, increased hp & torque but the turbo lag still sucks. I like my wagon but I miss my mini.

 

* High Five * to the newbie!

 

Just curious, and sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but why is Mini going with the turbo ? Is it because it has more power potential than the supercharger ?

I am not fully understanding of these issues, but from what I know now, I'd rather have the supercharger because there's no lag, and there's no need to do the cool down warm up game.
So why is turbo considered more desireable than supercharger ?

Thanks,
Floyd

 

I've been wondering the same thing. I came from a Subaru WRX, one of the things I don't miss is the turbo lag. I hated getting skunked in traffic because I wasn't making any boost. The supercharger makes the MCS much nicer to drive.

 

The turbo motor produces more torque at lower RPM than the supercharged motor.

Peak torque on the turbo motor is supposed to be under 2K RPM's. I don't think the current S starts moving until about 3K+ RPMs. I think the new turbo S is going to feel a whole lot quicker.

 

OK, gotcha. My '06 MCS has approximately 4 lb-ft below 3K, anything to get the little guy moving will definitely enhance the driving experience. Plus, if they're designing it for a turbo, I'll bet they finally have good flow through the exhaust ports. I have a feeling there are going to be some very fast MCS-turbos out there.

 

Read a recent test drive review of the '07 S where the reviewer said the new S would smoke his current JCW. Don't think turbo lag is going to be an issue.

 

According to BMW/MINI there is no perceived lag or cool down issues that they have not engineered out of our worries. At the same time the new engine produces significantly more torque over a wider RPM range and gets better fuel economy. On paper, it's better in every way. In reality it still needs to deliver it's promises and prove reliable. Time will tell.

 

Lighter car. Lots more usable torque at lower (and all) RPMs, which equates to less shifting to stay in the torque curve which, on the current car, is quite narrow. Makes sense to me. However, someboday made a good point about long-term reliability for an aluminum-block turbo'd engine, so we'll see. One thing about the Tritec iron-block "lump" engine is that it is turning out to be bullet-proof reliable (in typical Chrysler fashion), even under heavy mods.

About a year ago a major car magazine had a "tuner" roundup, where the runner up in the FWD category was, I think, a MINIMania-tuned S (it finished a close second to a 400 HP Evo.) At the end of the assessment, the writer talked about the new engine, and said that if it lives up to its specs and expectations, that any competition would essentially be "unfair." The ability to have maximum usable torque as little as 1500 rpm was his reasoning. I can hardly wait.

 

Yes, time will tell on the engine. Word is that power-plant engineers from BMW M GmbH (formerly BMW MotorSport), who design and develop the BMW M series cars were heavily involved in the design/build of the new engine, which should be a plus. And they are being built by BMW themselves, not third-partied out - at a BMW engine manufacturing facility that has been in operation for years - also a plus.

 

The saab 9-3 2.0T from 03 plus has featured an aluminum block ala "ecotec" very reliable auto.

The turbo on the mini S is also a twin scroll turbo, which lessens turbo lag even further, you don't have to deal with firing order interference either. You should realize that this turbo will be spooling by the time you have it in gear and start to want power.

Turbo lag is a Porsche 944turbo and a WRX, no turbo lag would be the new 2.0T engine from Vdub. I'm confident it'll feel more like the Vdub than the Suby or Porsche. Turbo technology from manufacturers have come a long way the technology has always been there but car manufacturers have always been slow to adapt optimal turbo designs.

Also the tuning options for this car will be set extremely high with direct port injection and a stock twin scroll.

 

I just put about 200 miles on the R56, here in Barcelona. It has more power than the current one and it's quite fast, but it is a little like the S where right off idle, there is a small amount of dogginess...and then around 1500-1600 it picks up very strongly. This essentially means that you need to rev it a little to get it going happily, and starting on a hill is a little interesting, but as soon as the car is moving, it's darn strong.

electronic throttle does have some issues and it's a little weird to modulate with left foot braking going on as well.

I'll be posting pictures on my website before the review hits our magazine.

 

Does the brake cut the throttle? Some of the new e-throttles do. To save us from ourselves..., they say.

 

I thinking about getting the 335i and test drove the coupe a couple of weeks ago.
There is turbo lag at off-idle throttle. There will always be some turbo lag. It is minimized in the 335 because of the high compression. But it takes time for those small twins to spin up.. and before they start to spin up they are a restriction in the exhaust path. Above 2000 rpms.. the car feels like a small V8.. pull is linear all the way.
I'm sure the mini will exhibit some lag as it is a small displacement engine with lowered compression.