Does anyone have any ideas about the cost of the 2007 MCS with the new turbo engines? I'm not sure of waiting for the 2007 or looking at the 2006 MCS form a cost perspective.

 

The next MINI hasn't even been officially unveiled yet. All we have seen are spy photos and the traveller concept, but nothing official on the 2007 MC and MCS.

I wouldn't expect pricing information until sometime in the mid summer 2006.

 

Roger that, just checking the temperature. I would expect Mini to try to keep the price as close to what is available today but you never know what will spring up with new model introductions. I realize this is very early but there should be some projections that insiders may have concerning their targeting for prices.

 

with the North American Car Show not too far away ... 4-5 months ... I wonder if there will be anyhting ready for display there ... anyone know?

 

It's in early Jan (I think...), and if MINI is there, I'll be going. The last time I went, it was for some silly reason. This time I'll have a REAL reason to go!

I'd like to know if anyone knows.

John

 

They will be there for sure, but I have not heard if they will be showing the '07. I'll keep my eyes peeled for any clues. They have put on a nice display for three or four years now and it's usually my first stop on media day (love those smoothies!)

 

It isn't gonna be cheaper...

 

The engine may be... PEUGEOT, I am no fan of those. Remember the Duce se Vou (sic). I guess Tritec is no big $$ motor there either, but at least there was some German input in engineering.

 

Maybe? It IS ... now read this http://www.topgear.com/content/featu...ries/01/3.html

Hmm, where do they rank?

 

I'm sure some of the components and materials will be cheaper..

but it'll be plenty more expensive

 

offical pricing will not be likely until the summer...

 

You're not talking about the Renault Deux Chevaux are you? Because that wouldn't have anything to do with this.

 

Probably a reference to the Citroen 2CV (Deux Chevaux). All three companies are French but I don't see any relation to a current Peugeot engine.

 

According to a buddy of mine who happens to be French, Peugoet sells a pretty reliable and popular deisel engine throughout europe and in many different makes. A German guy I work with told me that Peugoet engines have a pretty good reputation in Germany. Also the Peugeot F1 cars this year were faster than hell!

1 question... can someone give me an explanation of how a turbocharger is more desirable than a supercharger. It seems to me that since a supercharger is powered by the engine itself rather than the exaust there would be no "turbo lag". Also, from what I understand result of both concepts are the same (more gas + O2 forced into the combustion chamber). What is the big difference and why is a turbo more desirable?

 

A couple quickies: As the turbo is powered by the exhaust rather than the engine itself, it's more efficient, and gas mileage should be improved significantly.

The Mini's twin turbo should kick in at about 1500 RPMs, so there should be very little issue with turbo lag.

Although this is related to the engine itself more than the turbo, the new engine should be substantially ligher.

A big question will be reliability, but turbos have gotten much better in this regard.

I debated this to death, and opted for the 2006 with the supercharger...IMHO a supercharger fits the personality of the Mini better than a twin turbo--the whine is part of the car's character. Plus, I would have had to wait a couple of years on the turbo model--no way I would buy that sucker first year out; I'm too concerned about the potential bugs.

After a few years though, I'll be the new model will be fantastic, and depending on how it performs, maybe I'll get one then.

 

JRZYMINI.....

Can you tell me which team ran Peugeot engines in F1 for 2005?
I know Renault did exceptionally well, but that was a Renault engine.
Back in the old days when dinosaurs roamed the earth there was an alliance known as PRV (Peugeot/Renault/Volvo) with some engine cross pollination in road cars, and even, I believe a jointly developed engine, again for street use.
I have a feeling that alliance has gone the way of all things, however, unless there is still an association between Renault and Peugeot.
This is not a catch question...I genuinely want to know if there is something I am missing here

 

Sorry... brain fart there. Believe it or not I'm a pretty big F1 fan. I'm not sure what i was thinking. I was confused for a moment... you are right. Renault was what I meant. As Gilda Radner used to say on SNL, "Nevermind"

 

Sorry... brain fart there. Believe it or not I'm a pretty big F1 fan. I'm not sure what i was thinking. I was confused for a moment... you are right. Renault was what I meant. As Gilda Radner used to say on SNL, "Nevermind"

 

Okay... to clear things up a bit. The Tritec was engineered in Detroit by Chrysler. The only thing that BMW did mechnically was the MCS' supercharger intercooler. Everything else (except the software) was done in the US and then built in Brazil.

Now that's look at the new Prince engine. The engine was designed and engineered by BMW in Germany. BMW is partnering with Puegoet for help with logistics and economies of scale. BMW will be doing assembly of the next MINI's engine at Hams Hall in the UK. The initial blocks will comes from a PSA plant in Europe (I believe France). Puegoet will be building their own version of the engine in France.

How this became a French engine... I'll never know...

 

By twin turbo you do mean the split housing twin SCROLL turbo, right?




:smile: :smile:

 

Based on what I remember of the differences between Turbo and super charging I would expect the cost to possibly go down versus going up for the Mini. The fact that BMW is engineering this engine may add cost back but in the long run the new engine but should not increase by much over the current 06 MCS for the engine based on being turborcharged. I would expect more aftermarket capabilities for the turbo over the supercharged engine too. The turbo engine should realize a considerable difference in efficiency for fuel mileage over the surpercharged engines too. Since all the auto makers are trying to drive to more efficient vehicles and meeting the ever improving for gas mileage requirements in the US I would expect to see the new engine in the 40-45+ mpg range. The reduced weight of the turbo engine will probably inprove the performance of the MCS over the current supercharged MCS too. This is all personal opinion but based on just the capabilites of the two types of engines it should not be far off.

I hope BMW ops for keeping the cost down for the 07 as a target for the market in the US.

 

Putting on a bigger turbo - Probable.
Putting on a bigger SC (at least on minis) - Probably not going to happen.

When I see a stock turbo in a mini, the first thing I think is the potential for more power, and easier gotten power over the SC.

There are plenty of 1.6L hondas pushing 300+ hp with a turbo 1.6L, and I think breaking the 200hp mark with a turbo mini would be tons easier than with the current SC we have now.

While I love my SC...I also love the sound of a strong turbo as well.

My question is...Will it become a MCT?

 

One interesting comment I would like to make. I was very hesitant about this motor when I first heard about it. But in my opinion to get a slight preview of the technology and it's impact on Mini, we may want to look at the new 3-series. Some of the same technology being previewed on the new 3-series engine is also shown on the new Prince engine. Also, the purpose of both engines was somewhat the same, build a technologically advanced engine that is very efficient. The 3-series engine is amazing and very fuel efficient. This may give us a preview of what we will be seeing in the Prince engine.


I still prefer my supercharged engine and the driveability, but it will be very exciting to see what BMW produces.

 

I'm nervous about this new engine as well. First, whenever I hear/read "virtually eliminates (turbo) lag" it says to me that you can count on there being lag. Guaranteed. Its only a matter of how much and where it is in the power band. A close friend who works for BMWNA tells me that the engine's direct injection will help reduce lag. We'll see. I believe that BMW is doing this for two big reasons: 1) improving fuel economy and 2) economics (turbos are much cheaper than superchargers). I'd guess that economics is the biggest factor.

 

For the new 2007 engine production, I think I read somewhere that Peugot is designing and developing the manufacturing process (i.e., machinery and manufacturing methods).