R56 :: Hatch Talk (2007+) MINI Cooper and Cooper S (R56) hatchback discussion.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

R56 Potential N18 HPFP problem

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 10:50 AM
  #176  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Originally Posted by Maybe, maybe not
However, you can also answer the question by unplugging X11010 from the JBE and then measuring voltage directly at the JBE pin corresponding to the location of the white/blue wire in X11010. If you read 12V, then the short to ground is downstream of the JBE. If you read 8V or 0V, then the short to ground is in the JBE.
Before I share any of my results, I should set the parameters of my test. I'm using the old original JBE right now, with the K96 relay plugged in and active. I had the key in and the start button pressed for this test, and my battery was reading 12.6V for this test.

When I stuck the red probe of the multimeter through the back of the X11010 connector at the white/blue wire while it was plugged in, I got a reading of about 8V. When I disconnected the plug and read the voltage off the white/blue wire's socket on the JBE, I got a reading of 10.9V.

That tells me that while the JBE might not be as efficient as it should be, the main problem lies somewhere along the white/blue wire, or possibly at the X11010 connector.
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 10:54 AM
  #177  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Nice work, very promising, and thank you for the test details!

Did you notice whether the fuel pump ran during the test? Or was the fuel pump disconnected in the rear?
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 10:59 AM
  #178  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Originally Posted by Maybe, maybe not
Nice work, very promising, and thank you for the test details!

Did you notice whether the fuel pump ran during the test? Or was the fuel pump disconnected in the rear?
During my test, the connector at the fuel pump was not connected. I can connect it and try again if you'd like
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 11:17 AM
  #179  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Sure, connect the pump and listen for whether it runs.

If the pump doesn't run, then a priority item before proceeding further is to run a wire from the + battery post to check whether the fuel pump runs when you supply battery voltage directly to the white/blue wire (JBE bypassed).
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 11:29 AM
  #180  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Originally Posted by Maybe, maybe not
Sure, connect the pump and listen for whether it runs.

If the pump doesn't run, then a priority item before proceeding further is to run a wire from the + battery post to check whether the fuel pump runs when you supply battery voltage directly to the white/blue wire (JBE bypassed).
I plugged it in as normal, fuel pump didn't run. However, when I bypassed the JBE with power directly from the battery, the fuel pump ran!
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 11:48 AM
  #181  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190

Now we know that when the upstream JBE circuit is fixed, the fuel pump should run!

Where in the white/blue wire did you supply battery voltage?
 

Last edited by Maybe, maybe not; Nov 11, 2025 at 11:56 AM.
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 12:03 PM
  #182  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Originally Posted by Maybe, maybe not
Where in the white/blue wire did you supply battery voltage?
I took the connector off the JBE and supplied voltage directly to the bottom female end
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 12:09 PM
  #183  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
That is the best location you could have chosen!
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 01:39 PM
  #184  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
What do you think I should do next? Should I consider finding a way to get power to that white/blue wire from another switched power source in the JBE compartment? That NAM post you sent earlier today provides a seemingly good way to do that
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 01:54 PM
  #185  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Originally Posted by WillCucco
What do you think I should do next? Should I consider finding a way to get power to that white/blue wire from another switched power source in the JBE compartment? That NAM post you sent earlier today provides a seemingly good way to do that
See below.

Originally Posted by WillCucco
Before I share any of my results, I should set the parameters of my test. I'm using the old original JBE right now, with the K96 relay plugged in and active. I had the key in and the start button pressed for this test, and my battery was reading 12.6V for this test.

When I stuck the red probe of the multimeter through the back of the X11010 connector at the white/blue wire while it was plugged in, I got a reading of about 8V. When I disconnected the plug and read the voltage off the white/blue wire's socket on the JBE, I got a reading of 10.9V.

That tells me that while the JBE might not be as efficient as it should be, the main problem lies somewhere along the white/blue wire, or possibly at the X11010 connector.
I recommend that you repeat these^ tests on the new JBE. If with the X11010 connector unplugged, you get either no or low voltage at the JBE white/blue wire pin, then try swapping in the K96 relay from the original JBE.

If you carefully read through that K96 relay bypass thread, you'll see that many people encountered issues with the original poster's procedure. There may be improved K96 bypass procedures out there, but I think fixing the OBDII connection problem should be given an equally high priority.
 

Last edited by Maybe, maybe not; Nov 11, 2025 at 02:02 PM.
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 01:58 PM
  #186  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Alright, I'll repeat that procedure exactly, changing only the JBE variable. I'll be gone for about the next 1-2 hours, but once I get back I'll give that a shot
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 02:05 PM
  #187  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Originally Posted by WillCucco
Alright, I'll repeat that procedure exactly, changing only the JBE variable. I'll be gone for about the next 1-2 hours, but once I get back I'll give that a shot

I'll scout for some improved K96 bypass procedures.
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 03:19 PM
  #188  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Custom K96 voltage fix: Solder jumper wire between K96 relay socket terminal 87 and pin 9 of the X11010 connector?

Is this feasible, floodhound?

 

Last edited by Maybe, maybe not; Nov 11, 2025 at 03:25 PM.
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 03:44 PM
  #189  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Originally Posted by Maybe, maybe not
Custom K96 voltage fix: Solder jumper wire between K96 relay socket terminal 87 and pin 9 of the X11010 connector?
I could be mistaken, but I believe that terminal 87 is the ground socket. At least when I was testing voltages, terminal 30 was the one providing voltage. It was only once I put the jumper wire in there that I could read voltage on the terminal 87 side
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 03:51 PM
  #190  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Here's what my notes say based on your testing results:

 

Last edited by Maybe, maybe not; Nov 11, 2025 at 03:58 PM.
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 03:55 PM
  #191  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
From service manual:

Terminal 87 (B) goes to the fuel pump/pin 9 of X11010 connector...

 

Last edited by Maybe, maybe not; Nov 11, 2025 at 04:02 PM.
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 04:17 PM
  #192  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Would it be a problem then that I'm not reading any voltage off of terminal 87 alone? What I mean by that is that I have no K96 relay installed and no jumper wire installed, I'm just putting the red lead into terminal 87 and reading no voltage (key in start on)
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 04:35 PM
  #193  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
You are getting the expected result without relay or jumper wire installed. All is good.

K96 fuel pump relay activation:
  1. By supplying ground to terminal 30G voltage via the purple/green wire in black connector (X11008), the DME activates the K96 relay.
  2. The activated K96 relay in turn supplies fuse F46 voltage to the fuel pump via the white/blue wire in white connector (X11010) [terminal 87].
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 05:44 PM
  #194  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Originally Posted by WillCucco
Before I share any of my results, I should set the parameters of my test. I'm using the old original JBE right now, with the K96 relay plugged in and active. I had the key in and the start button pressed for this test, and my battery was reading 12.6V for this test.

When I stuck the red probe of the multimeter through the back of the X11010 connector at the white/blue wire while it was plugged in, I got a reading of about 8V. When I disconnected the plug and read the voltage off the white/blue wire's socket on the JBE, I got a reading of 10.9V.
I repeated this test, with the exact same parameters, except this time with the new JBE. With the new JBE, I was reading 0V at both the socket and at the back of the connector. I tried this with the original JBE's K96 relay and got the same result
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 05:46 PM
  #195  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
My dad also wants to know (since he did the original soldering work a week and a half ago) if the metal pins/posts that connect the two JBE PCBs together on the sides actually control anything, or if they're just there purely for structural reasons.
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 05:55 PM
  #196  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Originally Posted by WillCucco
My dad also wants to know (since he did the original soldering work a week and a half ago) if the metal pins/posts that connect the two JBE PCBs together on the sides actually control anything, or if they're just there purely for structural reasons.
I believe they also have an electrical function. Do you see any traces going to and from the pins?
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 05:59 PM
  #197  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Originally Posted by WillCucco
I repeated this test, with the exact same parameters, except this time with the new JBE. With the new JBE, I was reading 0V at both the socket and at the back of the connector. I tried this with the original JBE's K96 relay and got the same result
Fits with your previous results. With the new JBE installed and the K96 relay removed, what voltage readings do you currently get between the terminal 30 and DME relay sockets and between the F46 and DME relay sockets?
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 06:01 PM
  #198  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Originally Posted by Maybe, maybe not
I believe they also have an electrical function. Do you see any traces going to and from the pins?
I remember seeing some traces on some of them when I had it out last. He's concerned about the board because when he went to desolder the pins, some of the metal connectors at the top of the upper board came off and wouldn't go back on. He said that all of the metal connectors on the bottom of the upper board remained, and he soldered from the bottom instead of the top to get as good of a connection as possible. But even given that, my old board seems to be passing voltage better than the one I bought
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 06:08 PM
  #199  
Maybe, maybe not's Avatar
Maybe, maybe not
6th Gear
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 190
Originally Posted by WillCucco
I remember seeing some traces on some of them when I had it out last. He's concerned about the board because when he went to desolder the pins, some of the metal connectors at the top of the upper board came off and wouldn't go back on. He said that all of the metal connectors on the bottom of the upper board remained, and he soldered from the bottom instead of the top to get as good of a connection as possible. But even given that, my old board seems to be passing voltage better than the one I bought
I can't rule out the possibility that the missing or unconnected posts are contributing to the short to ground (~2.5V drop) at pin 9 and the OBDII problem seen with the original JBE. But as you say, it's puzzling that the new JBE has the same or worse problems.
 
Reply
Old Nov 11, 2025 | 06:11 PM
  #200  
WillCucco's Avatar
WillCucco
Thread Starter
|
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 105
Likes: 3
From: Boise, ID
Originally Posted by Maybe, maybe not
Fits with your previous results. With the new JBE installed and the K96 relay removed, what voltage readings do you currently get between the terminal 30 and DME relay sockets and between the F46 and DME relay sockets?
For both tests, terminal 30 to DME and F46 to DME, I get a reading of 12.6V
 
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:57 AM.