Hi everyone. I'm just starting out on self care after my factory maintenance plan ended. I have a 2013 MINI Cooper S and I'm currently past 10,000 miles on MINI factory 0W-30 oil so kinda need to change it rather soon. I've spent the past few weeks scouring forums and sites learning about engine oils, viscosity grades, the heated oil debates that take place, and all that. The biggest thing seems to be that everyone is really set in their emotions in terms of what oil they use based on what they were marketed when they first started out. Yet oil tech and standards have advanced quite a bit over the years. However I'm looking for objective data on why a particular oil is better than the others.

Blackstone says in Which Oil Is Best? that of all the oils they've analyzed, none particularly stood out and that the best thing to do is to just change oil with consistent frequency.
And along these lines, I found this database by PQIA that lists Blackstone like reports of new, unused oils from different manufacturers.

My question is, if the oil meets API standards for SN or SN PLUS, this means it's certified for almost all gasoline cars on the road today; so does it really matter what oil you use?

Red Line has impressive specs and a ton of people swear by Mobil 1, yet I've also found Costco Kirkland synthetic oil that's also SN PLUS rated. According to standards, these 3 oils should perform identically. So what differentiates them further, besides marketing?

Second (most important question), regarding viscosity for turbo applications, does it make sense to use a 5W-40 or higher since turbos run considerably hotter than engine operating temperatures? The reasoning I've read on keeping with 5W-30 because that's what the engine bearings are spec'd for doesn't make sense to me because oil viscosity is fluid and temperature dependent, so if the oil temp is operating higher than the typical 100°C, and it generally is on R56's based on some data I saw from other users here, that means that the oil is acting thinner than a SAE30 in those turbo engines. So to me it makes sense to run a higher operating SAE to compensate.

Third, I've noticed this time around that the coolant has dropped quite a bit. I'm not sure by how much but there's virtually none in the fill tank. I don't see any evidence of leaks. Could this be related to the oil levels, which also seemed low after the factory oil change?

Also, does anyone know what is the OEM oil MINI factory currently uses and is it any different than the retail version of that?

Lastly, I haven't had time to research oil filters yet but is the MINI stock good enough or are there better recommendations? Thanks!

 

I use 5w-40 here in Cincinnati, no issue with cold starts, and depending on how hard I drive it I have seen oil temps up to 240F, but are usually around 230f. The mini or Mann filters are the way to go. As for coolant, you have a leak somewhere, I might burn my qt of oil per 1500 miles but no coolant loss at all.

 

Lubricity is more of what Blackstone reports on IMO.

BUT.... along side of that is an oil's tendency to leave deposits on the intake valves (IVD's)....
The 0W oils in a given brand/type seem to have higher evaporative-losses than the 5W oils.
This evap loss is recovered by the engine as it it re-ingested by the PCV system through the intake tract .

IVD's are a BIG deal on the mini GDI engines (Gasoline Direct Injection).... and using an oil that can help to minimize that aspect is important to me.



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Under normal driving conditions any oil meeting or exceeding the manufacturer's specification should be good enough to use. It's more the case of doing the oil service more frequently.

From what I read in simple terms all oils are made from the same base spec oil and the difference is different manufacturer's use different amount of additives in their oil to achieve different things that they want the oil to do.

Some good YouTube video from Project Farm that does some test on different brands of oil.

It would take someone with great knowledge or with Chemical & Petroleum Engineering degrees to explain in detail what the exact differences are and how it affects the engine.

MINI used to use Castrol as their oil but not sure if that is still the case now.

MINI oil filters should be good enough to use, replace them like with the more frequent oil changes.

If you're losing a lot of coolant, it's probably leaking and/or burning off somewhere.

 

On my dipstick tube is says Castrol synthetic and it is available everywhere, so this is what I’m going to stick with. Liqui Moly isn’t easily available and Motul just burned to quickly for me. Tossed around the thought of royal purple but I can’t find 5w-40 and I just don’t know if the extra 3 bucks per qt is really worth it. I have 143000 on her, she does burn a qt every 1500 miles with 5w-40 Castrol Edge, motul was a qt at 1200. I have my pvc blocked off on passenger side, occ on driver side. I use only mini or Mann filters and change them out every time, 5000 mile changes.

 

MINI uses a European version of oil that has Long Life. I don’t remember the exact spec number. If you change your oil between 5 and 10 thousand miles that should not matter. I have looked up the specs and compared them to the typical high quality oil sold in the states and they are otherwise no different.

For my 2012 MCS the owners manual says:
0w40, 0W30, 5W40 and 5W30
are acceptable.
The engine say 5W30 is recommended.

That said, about your comment:
MINI would have designed the engine and selected the oil viscosity based on the expected operating temperatures of the engine oil. I would not assume that the owner of the car needs to compensate for something that the manual says otherwise. Remember MINI warrants the car for a long time and this sort of thing would be important for them to get right otherwise it could cost them.

As for the choice oil and brand, if you are just driving on the road and not “road racing” (that is, not running at 4000 to 6000 rpm for a good part of the engines life), then I would say any name brand full synthetic oil of the right “S” rating will serve you fine. Just change the oil between 5000 and 10000 miles.

I run my 2012 MCS on the track. I have 60+k miles on the car and it burns no oil. The N18 engine in that car has provisions for oil temperature that can be read by something like a ScanGageII. I will typically see oil temperatures in the 255 deg F range. I have seen temperatures as high as 280 deg F when the auxiliary water pump for the turbo died and the turbo was not being cooled. That has since been fixed.

At the oil temperatures I see on the track, there is a definite difference between brands of oil. Mobil 1 (0W40) and Castrol (5W30) are very low on my list for oils to use. Redline (5W40) and Motul (5W40) are both very high on my list. I have had Blackstone tests done all of them and they have not come up with any differences in their results. My opinion is purely qualitative; that is, no absolute numbers I can point to. However, there is a big difference in the way the engine sounds after 3 days on the track with Mobel 1 and Castrol. With Redline and Motul, not so much difference. My thought is the Mobil 1 and Castrol are loosing viscosity with that temperature or they are loosing some additive that the N18 engine likes.

Just to note that the N18 engine, which the OP has, is much better (“tolerant” might be a better word) about this than are the N14 engines used in the earlier Gen II MINIs.

Use the MINI filters.

If you are loosing water - you have a leak. It could be as simple as a crack in the overflow container. I would check there first. Then look else where such as the thermostat housing, water pump, etc. If your oil level is rising and/or the oil is milky-brown, then you have a head gasket leak (maybe a leak in the turbo between the oil for the bearing and the water coolant.

 

This is helpful, thanks for the reply. I actually came across some of your other posts on this and was hoping you'd read this.

I should've mentioned, I actually do drive hard. Usually high torque accelerations but I do want to eventually take it on track. My plan is to "purge" the engine with two oil changes of Kirkland 5W-30 for 1000 - 3000 miles each; and then put in RedLine 5W-40 every 5000 miles. Also going to Blackstone test samples.

The reason I want to "purge" is because the second to last time the dealership did the oil change, they filled with MINI 0W-30 all the way to the maximum mark. There were no issues whatsoever, no leak or oil loss. However last time, a year later, they filled with the same grade but only to at or below the minimum mark. It's hard to read the dipstick but some areas on the gauge are dry even below the minimum mark. So i'm wondering if the coolant loss is related to this or what sort of cause/effect these two things might have on one another. The car runs fine though and I hear no issues.

I do indeed have an N18 so not worried about the deposit issues for the time being. I don't see any obvious coolant or oil leaks on the car or on the floor below. I however don't know yet where some of the other things like thermostat housing, water pump, or head gasket are located so I'll have to investigate further. My plan was to oil change and top with coolant and monitor from there.

 

It was just a whim that I read this. Glad you found it helpful.

Sounds like you have a plan for the coolant...

What track or tracks would you be thinking of going to?

I should have noted that with our first MINI (the 2004), BMW and MINI were extending the interval of the oil changes. For a while our car was showing 20+k miles between oil changes. As you could imagine, that didn’t go well for a lot of engines especially the big BMW V8s. After a while of having our MINI, the miles between oil changes showed up much shorter (ECU update?), to something like 15k miles. These extended intervals for oil changes is where the long life oil came in.

As for Blackstone, they check for metals along with other things. Mine always showed up high on iron. Not sure why. I lost interest in having it tested when they never came back with any differences between oils. I am thinking that the additives are better in some oils than others. Sorry, but I don’t remember the full results.

I change my oil a lot during a track season. Some of the events I go to are for 3 days. I will put in fresh oil and new oil filter for each of those longer events and will change it before the next event even if it is just a one day event. That may mean 6 or so oil changes in a year. This is part of the reason for going from Redline to Motul. The Motul is a bit less expensive and seems to work as well as the Redline for me.

 

True.... but not immune. The N18 is a GDI engine...ALL GDI engines are prone to IVD's. Unless you have something 'washing' the back side of the valve (Meth/water etc)... I want to use the ideal oil for a GDI engine... And to me, IMO, that is an oil with low volatility in the temp range that I'm running. For a track car... I'd run something that can handle the heat ... IF... indeed the car is Running on the hot side of 'normal'

When I was looking for a new R56 I almost bought a low mile N18 JCW (less than 40k miles) that when I did the PPI... It showed "N14 levels" of IVD's ... owner bragged about using 0W-30 and that is best for mileage... and he lived in Santa Cruz Ca.... doesn't get cold there.... HMM.... I did get a nice R56 in the end... and it had clean valves both Pretty nice before the O.O. did the walnut shell and pristine after... 100K mile car. He used low NOACK rated oil ONLY. (low volatility)

Unless I'm in arctic conditions (In which case, my Mini is not my go-2 vehicle).... I won't use a 0W oil.... for evap/volitility reasons.

For the price.... and to check all the boxes... FOR ME... I like the Redline specs.... And is now what I'm running in my GDI vehicles.
I also change at 4000 mile mark, oil and filter.
For me... why not find one that checks all the boxes?

Because of the higher detergent content of diesel full synth oils, and the zinc that can foul the cat-conv .... I won't run it. (though there are many that swear by it, popular in the WRX world)

my 2¢






















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Which Motul are you running (weight and type)?






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All good points and some that I have not heard of.

I may be remiss in not checking the valves for any coking. But on the track, I am consistently at the same top speeds for each event I go to. My assumption is that, if I am consistently reaching my typical top end, then I am not loosing Hp, which I think would be the case if the valves were loading up. I am reluctant to even look for fear of something being messed up in the process. Maybe I am wrong here? But I don’t trust shops around me. The dealer does well, but I have some minor hiccups even there.

 

Motul 102870-4 8100 X-Cess 5w40 Oil Case/4-5 Liters

Amazon font.

 

I guess I could use the 10W40. I have not given the lower weight side of the number a thought before now. But the 5W40 seems to work well.

An interesting side note is that my new JCW recommends 0W20 oil. I understand that is across the board on all BMWs now. My guess is this is a fuel mileage thing. But I now wonder what the 0 side of the weight will be doing to the engine. Hmmmmm.....

A thought about one of the OPs question. That is what brand and weight. It strikes me that while each engine should come out of the factory identical, clearly they don’t given that some people have problems and others don’t. Over time the engines are going to wear into however they are driven and treated. A lot of people note here on NAM in general different preferences for type, weights and brands for the oil they use. And a lot of those people have what seems to be very valid reasons for their choices. I wonder if these differences in one engine vs another engine makes a difference in which oil the engines like best... If that is the case, then there may be no one right or wrong answer. But it is always good to ask and make a choice based on how the answers resonate with you and your car. I found my choices for oil from a lot of money spent on oil changes over the years, having that high oil temperature issue and being able to talk to one of the principle people at the head of RedLine oils (he was at the track event I was at when I had the excessively high oil temp and I was introduced to him). Like I said, my choices have no real technical basis. I just like the way the engine runs and sounds (I put a lot of stock in those to things). It was the use of RedLine oil that put me on to the idea oil would make a noticeable difference. And the Motul seems the same. I won’t say that they will be the best for anyone else’s engine. But it won’t hurt to try one or the other, either.

Thanks for “listening”...

 

Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w-40. I have been using this for years and am really happy with it. For around $40 every 7500 miles, I can’t complain.

It stays nice and golden until about 6k. Burns very little. I usually don’t have to add anything between oil changes.

 

Motul is good stuff, guys in the motorbike community love that stuff. Been running Liqui Moly on both my MINIs.

 

Yup, that looks just like my dip stick. Even with the oil slightly above the full bump. But after being on the track for 3 days, it looks a bit less fresh than that...

 

Thank you Eddie for posting up your info.... I'm always on the search for more.

I hear ya on checking for the IVD's... but it is a pretty easy 'DIY' process to check on it.

Your MOTUL is "OK" in terms of Volality.... at about 10% (not the worst by a long shot)....
The redline is 6% for the 5W30 and 5W40 versions of their oil..... Which is what I'll keep using.
Amsoil is in the 7- 10% range depending on the oil you choose with them.
LiquiMoly oils in in the 10% range as well.

I hear ya also on the Blackstone reports and that they DO, in fact, report on contaminants in the oil... my point was that they don't report on properties of the oil in terms of NOACK % etc. I used to use Blackstone and other analysis labs for large diesel engine oil analysis.... and, after reading your posts, will probably go to using them at my oil changes on the R56. Thank you for that !















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The fact that it held up so well on track is what made me a believer. Road Atlanta in June is pretty hot, the Motul held safe temps and came out looking great

 

you should have seen the oil after it was cooked at 280-ish deg for two days...

I also blew the thermostat at that event and it threw a code, but not limp home. Having the ScanGage allowed me to finish the event as I could watch the water temp. It was erratic but never got high. I think the two were unrelated, but not my best event. And a pretty costly repair.

I have been told that Road Atlanta is a track that I should go to. Maybe someday, but it would have to be after going to VIR. Both are a long hike for me.

Enjoy and motor on...

 

Sorry about ghosting the post. Don't quite get how notifications work on this forum.

I'm not quite sure. I live in Texas and I haven't really heard of any tracks nearby so I'll have to look into it.

You're right, even though it's an N18, the reasoning behind using low volatility oil makes sense for a number of purposes.

I got my R56 around 35K miles or so. The carfax showed only 1 oil change on record and considering it had multiple owners and was still under warranty when I got it, I'm gonna assume it only saw one oil change before I got it.

I've gotten 2 oil changes under warranty since and its approaching 50K miles. On the BMW paperwork, it says the oil used was MINI 0W-30 both times. I live it Texas, and I generally drive it pretty hard, so I figured it makes sense to use 5W-40. I was even considering something like a 10W-50 but I haven't seen enough data on how much difference and variation different weights make to go that far. However, since it wasn't well maintained prior to me getting it I really wanna flush it a few times with short oil changes. More on this below.

In doing research, the only pattern that seems to emerge is viscosity makes the biggest impact. It is interesting that new MINI's spec for 0W-20 and BMW seems to be doing that across the board. But this is also the general trend industry wide, so I'm curious about the engineering behind why more viscous weights are not beneficial to newer engines now.

This is why I linked that Blackstone newsletter about their oil analysis. I believe in data; it provides concrete evidence over any qualitative 'feels'. They've probably analyzed hundreds of thousands of samples and they found no distinction among different brands. There were some minor pattern variations but nothing drastic. So their conclusion is that routine maintenance with any certified oil is good. That's not to say there aren't difference between certain models as the analysis wasn't comprehensive. But to your point, I'd imagine the difference in cars comes down to initial break-in, driving style, and maintenance. But there isn't a good way to know unless we do a full-on experiment and break-down analysis between oil changes. Otherwise, it's all about the feels.

A few more questions for you guys. How do I go about finding the volatility for these oils? I see the Motul table you posted moutainhorse but I don't see that listed on their website. I'm trying to find the NOACK for all the others like the Costco/Warren brand oil I mentioned in the original post.

What's the underlying difference between the Motul and Redline? It seems the Motul is PAO while the Redline is PAO and Ester mix. But the Motul Sport 5W-40 is 100% ester and rated 4.7% volatility (according to the table) so isn't Sport an even better oil than X-Cess or Redline?

So should I skip the engine flush with the Costco/Warren oil? As I mentioned earlier, I wanted to run that for maybe 1-2K miles a couple times just to get out contaminants from the previous long interval oil changes.

Wait I can check for IVD myself?? How?!

I'm having trouble "reading" the dipstick. Like the one Scotty posted, there's a bare spot in the middle with no oil... so how do you know how high it actually is? And so when doing a change, do I fill to 4 quarts, drive a block, check, pour some, and repeat, or is there a better way? MINI says to not overfill so...

Lastly, Eddie would you mind linking that ScanGage you've mentioned? I can't seem to find it. I'm not quite sure on the coolant issue so I figured more data is what I need!

Thanks guys.

 

ScanGage 2:
https://www.scangauge.com/products/scangauge-ii/

I believe you can get it off Amazon (go figure). I thought Way Motors had them, but I can’t open their web page.

As for using a 50 weight oil in a car designed for 30... that is not something that i would do. Engines are designed for a certain oil viscosity. The bearings in an engine work based on the pressure of the oil within that bearing, not some random pressure from a gage that is away from the bearing. The pressure within the bearing is determined in part by the flow rate and clearances. Too thin or too thick can affect that pressure within the bearing. I don’t know how tolerant these engines are to a the oil being too thick. One weight up is OK, and should be all you need.

As for reading the dip stick, I don’t when I am changing the oil. I drain out what is there, I change the oil filter. I measure out 4.5 qts and pour it in. I start the engine and check for leaks. I check the dip stick. If i looks like the one above, I am good to go. I don’t worry about the little areas on the stick that don’t have oil on them as I know the oil pan is full.

Your biggest worry is letting the oil get down at all. I pull over 1 g on the track. I make sure that the oil level covers the top bubble of the dip stick. If it doesn’t I add a little, run the engine, let it sit a while and then check it again. That is a great picture above and it shows what I look for. I do this because the oil pan has no baffles in it. If the oil get low, and I don’t know what “low” is so I assume that it is anything below absolute full, the oil pump can be starved of oil with high g cornering loads. If you lose oil going to the vacuum pump, it can seize up. That pump is connected to one of the camshafts. There are accounts on NAM of that pump locking up, breaking the timing chain and have a valve meets piston problem. In other words, blown engine... Yes a bad design, but that is what MINI gave us to work with.

 

Before I update, I just wanna share this link I found on BimmerWorld. Quite pertinent and informative since MINI uses the same engines: https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/
The only confusion I have from the link is regarding their Redline advice; What's exactly the difference between Redline High Performance and Euro Series (this is different from Professional Series)?

Update:

So I finally got around to changing the oil and looking into the coolant issue. Regarding the oil, I drove about 10,000 miles on a factory-serviced BMW LL-01 0W-30 oil. Measured the oil that came out... 2.4 quarts. So considering this car takes 4.4 quarts, what are the implications of this? I've sent some of this oil in for analysis, but honestly, I'm surprised it was so low. It had no symptoms and drove just fine. I high rev all the time, even did so right before changing. The oil was dark, but not black.

The coolant issue is still up in the air. I discovered during the oil change that moving the coolant expansion tank to get to the oil filter causes coolant to leak from the bottom hose on the tank. The hose is entirely too short and you have to be very careful. However, it looks to be sealed just fine, I think just pulling on the hose causes some coolant to seep out. Bad design. So the question is, how badly do the factory techs treat it when they are changing the oil filter... I'll have to monitor it and see. I don't see any visible leakage other than when pulling on the hose to access the oil filter. The level does drop when it cools down but that's to be expected I assume.

 

For one stop changing your oil at 10,000 and do it at 5000, please. Second check your oil at least once a month and top it off at a minimum, I check mine every time I get gas, it’s not hard to do and you are starving your engine of oil if it was that low. If you keep it up your going to have a timing chain issue.
And you are probably not leaking it your burning it if you are high reving that much. My day of the dragon and Devil’s Triangle I burned a bit more that I typically due just due to the fact revs we’re above 3k for most of it.

 

I definitely intend on changing it every 5K from here on out. I just wanted to experiment and see where it would end up. Thanks for the advice regardless. I'm flushing it with 2 changes of Costco Kirkland/Warren 5W-30 oil every 1-2K miles then will probably go with Redline.

As far as checking the oil, I'm honestly having a pretty hard time reading that dipstick. It's also badly designed imo. It was reading at MIN even at 2.4 quarts.

I'm not leaking oil, I may be leaking coolant although not sure yet. But the oil definitely burns away as I could literally see it burning away when I was topping off on a hot engine!

 

i let it cool down at least an hour if not 2 when checking it. Oil on both dots and your should be good if yours looks like the one above, i might make sure the whole plastic is covered when I’m going on extended road trips of 2 hours or more.